Fire Protection Industry

H

Hayden

New member
Gentlemen,

Just curious as to how many of us guys cleaning hoods are also in the fire protection field?
That's what I currently do full time for a living. That's also how I got involved with cleaning hoods.

I noticed how the big boys like Grinnell and Getz and so on were involved in the cleaning side too. I figured it was a good addition to the services we already provide, and might help me pick up some new accounts.

Also I noticed there is not a bbs like the one we have here, available for us in the fire industry. Why don't we expand this site a little and include fire topics for those of us also pressure washing hoods?

I'd love to know what you guys charge for fire extinguisher inspections in other states?

What you charge for kitchen fire systems inspections?

How you get apartment complexes to not buy those cheap kidde fire extinguishers? How low do you go on your price?

do you handle any national accounts? is it worth it?

So, I don't know? is this something that sounds interesting? Is it feasible on this site?

I believe it's a network that is extremely needed.

Sincerely,

Hayden

Brazas Fire & Safety Equip. Co.,
Fire Safety Network Inc.
 
Hayden,

I believe that you will get some responses. I also think if you post a number where you are located more veterans on this BBS will be willing to help.


Talking about pricing is a touchy subject. Maybe e-mail would be the way you’ll get your answers. Good luck with your questions.
 
We clean kitchen exhaust systems, provide a grease filter exchange service, install and service automatic fire supression systems, sell and service portable fire extinguishers and service make up air units.
The existing BBS for fire systems are mediocre at best.
California is a different animal on portable fire extinguishers due to the fact that we are one of the two last states that require annual tear down, but that will change within the next 6 -12 months when we go to a 6 year like the rest of the country. (which hopefully will wipe out the last of the car trunk quasi-service companies that drive prices down and give all the rest of us a bad name)
Fire system pricing in California is very cheap due to the huge number of rag n' tag type of service companies.
As far as apartments and Kidde disposable extinguishers, don't bother trying to sell them anything...they wont buy! National Accounts as in localy managed chains yes National service companies that want to use you as a sub for thier customers HECK NO! all problems and the check is always "in the mail".
As far as the need for another BBS, I dont think so, a sub forum here..maybe. A needed network...probably not.
 
Fire-list@halcyon.com for FX and SH
not much activity, most FX companies seem to hate each other

firealarm@groups.com for Fire Alarm
very esoteric, arguments on spacing for smokes and types of wire to be used. Mostly good info, not much on service. Most members are willing to help each other . Members include those on NFPA committes Sponsered by Automatic Fire Alarm Association.

SprinklerFORUM@firesprinkler.org for Sprinklers
good info on service, most members are willing to help. Sponsered by American Fire Sprinkler Association some members are aon NFPA committes

Douglas Hicks
General Fire Equipment Co of Eastern Oregon, Inc
Member of NFPA, AFAA, AFSA and charter board member of OR-FED (Oregon Fire Equipment Distributors)
 
Fire-list@halcyon.com for FX and SH
not much activity, most FX companies seem to hate each other

firealarm@groups.com for Fire Alarm
very esoteric, arguments on spacing for smokes and types of wire to be used. Mostly good info, not much on service. Most members are willing to help each other . Members include those on NFPA committes Sponsered by Automatic Fire Alarm Association.

SprinklerFORUM@firesprinkler.org for Sprinklers
good info on service, most members are willing to help. Sponsered by American Fire Sprinkler Association some members are aon NFPA committes

Douglas Hicks
General Fire Equipment Co of Eastern Oregon, Inc
Member of NFPA, AFAA, AFSA and charter board member of OR-FED (Oregon Fire Equipment Distributors)
 
Hayden, read your post w/interest. We do hoods, systems, sprinklers, alarms and emergency lites. We see the same problems in our work. In FX we call them Rag & Tag, in sprinklers we call them blow and go. I have seen some of Grinnel-Simplex work done to a very high quality. Most of it is of low quality. (Is that a lawyer knocking on the door?) I have seen Simplex jobs w/the address of the smokes reported inaccurately, flow switches not wired to the panel, batteries, so old that immediatly they fail the load test. I have seen grinnell sprinkler techs that missed the fact that there was no inspectors test & that there was not full protection. I am about to take over one of thier accounts. This was serviced 6 months ago, I found corrosion on the sprinklers. This account also has GB heads, the big S did not mention that to them. I have also worked for the national companies, and waited 90 days for my money. I have had the big S tell me not to service their accounts, but it is OK for them to take mine and then expect me to do the service at a reduced price and wait 90 days for my money.

There is no way to force people/companies to do the work to whatever the code is in your area until the AHJs are educated and actually give a damn. I had a local fire chief tell a customer that a 2 # Kidde FX was ready to mount and met code. Kidde has a plastic flag on that model that says "for shipping purposes only Must be removed for the extinguisher to work. : I immedatly went to the chief and asked if the city carried liability for his ignorance. (Do you suppose that is one reason he did not like me?) In Oregon we have almost no code enforcement of any kind. My experience has been the code enforcement people are not aware of the codes as they pertain to fire, and do not want to make waves. The few times I have seen a enforcment officcial do anything, I am truly amazed. I heap lots of praise on them, and cultivate them. I have been told that if they try to strictly enforce the code, the powers that be in city hall complain that enforcement hinders economic development, and to back off. Of course when there is a fire, opinion changes. But only for a short while, then it is back to normal business.

Just the rantings of a pissed off fool

Douglas Hicks
General Fire Equipment Co of Eastern Oregon, Inc
 
That argument fits in well with grease exhaust industry, we need one set of rule that every contractor has to follow, why would an electrician wire up a fan that has built in hinges with the wire to short for the hinges to work. Answer, ignorance. All he knows is he has to supply power to the motor.
Why at a prominent airport do they snake the ductwork all around just so they can hide all the fans in one location behind a façade, when nothing was stopping them from going straight up to the roof. Ignorance, the architect only knows he doesn’t want greasy fans degrading the appearance of his work. At this particular location where the duct does have access panels, I can’t get to them because they are blocked by electrical conduits that run under them so all I can do is look at it. I may have a picture of this one, If I do I will post it.
The last time I was there I the manager told me the fire inspector wanted me to call the next day. He wanted to know why I keep leaving reports say I didn’t clean all the ductwork, which isn’t true, I left reports saying the most of the ductwork was inaccessible for cleaning. Some of the ductwork even runs through other stores. He told me that all of those systems had passed inspections when they were built so what is the problem. Ignorance I don’t have an excuse for this guy, he is just ignorant. Then he has the nerve to say none of the other cleaners have this problem. HELLO is your brain working? I have made three trips to this place just to show someone what the problems are, and now this guys want’s me to do it again. UHH no thanks I don’t need this headache anymore.
Oh no I did it again I'm ranting sorry
 
the picture mentioned in the last post

there is an access panel in there somewhere
 

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the pan in the picture is there to catch grease dripping out of the duct.
 
I keep a focus on hood cleaning only, with that in mind I service jobs for several fire companies. This way I stay out of way and become only a cleaner. In fact I don't even change out belts, I call a service for that. However, I do install doors and sell filter, pans and trap systems. I just don't have the time and my working relation with the fire protection people work well. What makes it nice is that I set my price for the jobs that are referred by the fire companies.

David:cool:
 
More rantings

If I had a dollar for every time a customer has told me, "The fire Marshall/building inspector was just here and said everthing is fine", I could retire. When that happens, I just smile and tell them that "the inspector is responsable for a knowing all that is in a set of code books 6 feet long. It is imposable for them to know all about everything in the building trades, especially one as small as life & fire safety. I consentrate only on one small part of the code. " I do carry a set of NFPA standards in the van, and will offer to show them the applicable section. I tell them that I follow the most stringent set of codes, even if not enforced by the AHJ. It is diffucult not to tell the customer that the AHJs usually don't know and don't want to know. The list of violations and incomptent work I have seen is astounding. I can only gues at the amount those in the Metro areas have seen. Of course in Oregon, we have the State Fire Marshal, the building inspectors and OR-OSHA, all responsible for enforecment, and they all use a different set of standards. And they do not talk to each other! So one inspector says I have to be lisenced before prusuing a particular line of work,while the Construction Contractors Board (responsable for lisencing contractors )tells me I do not need lisencing for the same trade.

A couple of years ago, some of us in the FX business got together, and formed an orginization, OR-FED, and do seem to be making some headway. One of wour goals is education of the AHJs adn those working in our field. Unfortunatley, those who are doing rag & tag now, will continue to do the same type of work, that has to do with personal integrity. We have a newsletter that goes out to members and a newsletter that goes out to fire inspectors. We do seem to be making some headway, but it is slow. We did do a seminar on UL300 last June and got some of the inspectors to attend. More have expressed an interest in attending another training session in September. We also have support from the manufactures. Last year Amerex gave the UL300 presentation, this year Ansul volunteered. Badger as well as Brooks has been represented and will be in attendance this year. There may be hope yet. Professional organizations can make a difference.

I want to finish my last 5 years working as an inspector. Mmm, maybe I should make that my last 5 months, as that is as long as I would last before I got fired.

Douglas Hicks
General Fire Equipment Co of Eastern Oregon, Inc
 
Hey Douglas,

Thanks for all the information!

New Mexico seems to do a pretty good job of enforcing fire codes.
I guess it depends on who you ask. We get quite a few calls from people asking for service because the fire department was on site, or their insurance company required them to, or just because they seem to care.

Here in Albuquerque, we do compete with Grinnell, and formerly Firemaster, but we get alot of their business because of our pricing and customer service.

Just to let you know, we currently sell Badger fire extinguishers but, I think we're going to dissolve our relationship and start selling Flag extinguishers. It's about the bottom line! Go NAFTA!

It's a quality fire extinguisher and the pricing is GREAT!

Hey I gotta run, the wife is home and giving me that look!

Hayden
 
I get those calls all the time, the fire marshal or my insurance company told me it has to be cleaned, I go and look at it and it is relativley clean, but they were told it has to be done every six months reguardless. meanwhile I can walk outside and usaully point out a few places that have gone years without being cleaned. It's crazy how it works, it always seems the wrong places get picked on. I have one place who's insurance company insists they have the system cleaned every 4 months, I get the system dirty by cleaning it, that is how clean it is when we arrive, I even talked to the insurance agent personally an he still insist on a quarterly schedule. I asked him for a list of his restuarant customers but he wouldn't give me one darn.
 
Well actually Matt, in this instance the regularity of service was not a factor in the fire. According to the Fire Investigator and the insurance adjuster the fire began as a result of a short circuit on the roof. (This explains why people on the street saw the fire before the kitchen staff.) The exhaust system was properly maintained, the fire system was also properly maintained and did activate although roof fires are slightly difficult for hood systems to extinguish. We clean it properly for considerably less than half!
 
Grant, did I read that right? You actually service that place.
If so I'll bet your heart skipped a beat when you heard they had a fire.
 
Yes and yes. But they will be reoppened soon, 2 - 4 weeks and we will continue to service them (yes Matt, regularly and properly)
 
No just creating a little rhetoric!:)
 
No problem, actually I'm glad you posted the link. One thing I have learned over the years is to not believe everything the media presents, so I really enjoy reading/watching stories when I know the facts just to see how distorted things can become!
And remember sensationalism sells...I think it was the J. Giles Band that had the song "Dirty Laundry"....listen to the lyrics.
 
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