Downstream Injectors

RonFHC

New member
Hello

I use E-Specs downstream injectors. Currently, I mix my truck wash in a 5 gal bucket and have 50' of chem line between the bucket and wand. Does anyone run a downstream injector with a chem line that leads back to their rig (200' or more)? I am wondering what kind of draw issues I am going to get if I run the chem line all the way back to a chem tank on my trailer? Share your thoughts

Thanks

Ron
 
Ron,

The most we ever used is 10 feet. We mount the injector on the hose reel or on the outlet side of the pressure washer. Then we use a tip that allows us to go to low pressure which then injects the soap into the high pressure hose. This allows you to have the soap container inside the truck, van, trailer, or whatever it is your machine is mounted in.

You can have a 15 gallon soap container mounted in your truck. One high pressure hose going to your wand and never have to carry a bucket around. There is no reason for you to have more than 10 feet of chemical line.

If you'd like a better explanation of this, email me with your number and I'll call you. I can also send you some pictures of how we set them up. It's actually very easy and very efficient.

Good luck.
 

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get yourself 3 or 4 20 gal drum's.
Then go to home depot and get some BLUE/WHITE small plastic valve's. 3/8th's fitting's.
then a roll of 3/8th's clear line.
Get some weighted strainer's from e-spec.
mount the valve's to a scrap of plywood with U clamp's.
Then plump the valve's together with 2 inc piece's of hose.
A SWITCHBOARD.
Then plump it all to your downstreamer.
just the turn off a valve and you can have as meny diffrent chem's as you have drum's.
What if you wanted to add some hd80 [mixed] to your cement wash? you could open 2 valve's and it would mix.
VERY HANDY.
Mine has 4 container's and 25 ft of hose on each.
Ive also plumbed mine so i can switch from downstream to up-stream. I also use a dual lance so i control my chem from the wand. Why is this handy?
i can HOT upstream truck wash, then twist the handle and add degreaser to the truck wash for frame's,motor's,asphault truck's,ect...
JUSTIN makes a fancy type of switch box but i bet it's not rigged like mine.
Credit for this is not mine. It goes to BIGBOY.[LARRY L]
Sure wish he would come back to this BBS.
 
Mine has 4 container's and 25 ft of hose on each

Ron, Just curious about the 4 containers and 25 foot of hose. What do you need the 25 feet of hose for? I don't get it. You should take a picture of what you are talking about. Actually if you could take a picture of your set-up you are talking about that would be great. I've been doing this a while and I can't picture what you are talking about or why you would need any more than enough hose to reach the container of soap.

Maybe you already have a picture. If so, point us to it. I just don't recall ever seeing any.

I dont really make a fancy unit like you describe, I just make a nice looking, simple, finished selector box system. Professional. Just all depends on preference. I could also tell him how to make something that works at Home depot. I did it for years. We bought the 1/4 pipe and 1/4 ball valves and hose barbs, with one common. We could mix soap and all. We've since raised our standards to making things look professional.

>>>trying to find a picture
 
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Justin, i have a 16 ft box truck with drum's in front and wash unit in the rear. By the time you get from the bottom of the drum to the wall, i enclosed the line's in a langth of PVC, THEN TO THE switchboard,THEN TO THE DOWNSTREAMER, it can be much longer then 10 ft.
My rig on the inside is not pretty, i wash everything i can and have junk all over. From sander's to ext. ladder's,to surface cleaner's, to homemade 12 volt sprayer's.
nothing is pretty.
I would be embarresed to post a pic.
The truck was owned by a diesel machanic and look's like hell on theinside.
Set-up is simply instead of one hose going to 1 container. It's 4 hose's going to a set of cheap valve's, then to the downstreamer.
nothing more.
Once again BIGBOY has shared some tip's that few wILL TRY.
If you have a supply tank with a ball valve. You can slightly close it. The pump want's to pull 5 GPM but you shut the valve so it can only get 4.5 [or somewhere in their]. Now the pump will draw threw the downstreamer and give you a higher draw rate.
Dont try this! It work's for me but i dont want anyone messing their pump up. When i do this i dont use a downstreamer. , i upstream.
Justin, you know and i know that the guy who come's up with the cheapest,easiest way to control the heater and chem's from the gun and has the best clutch/engine speed control will win the invention game.
You will double the life of the equipment, you will cut the work time by 30%,you'll never need an unloader,the pump will never overheat,you can have upstream[because no need to route the pump back to the tank] and you'll sell a ton of them.
Next year im going to have a wash unit built for me.
Diesel,cat,clutch,remote,stainless,powdercoat,belt,twin battery,12 volt stand-up burner,6 gpm,3000 psi. run off my truck's fuel tank.
I wish i had the $ now a guy on delco's site has 2 for sale at a real good price.
 
Ron,

Don't be embarassed about your set-up. My first one was an old rusty van that had exhausted inside. It wasn't a pretty sight and I wish I would have gotten pictures of it. Everything was rigged. When my customers seen it is when I was embarrassed. I started making money and was able to get my rig looking good. It only took a couple months, but I wanted to open my doors with pride. Once I had my things looking good I was able to help others. Now I don't rig anything up. I make things to look finished and neat. With that comes extra cost and time.

As far as Bigboy is concerned, well he is still working with the same stuff he was last year. Everyone has a preference and I prefer to be neat and clean and be proud to show my equipment off to my customers. Not all of us can afford that yet and each of us like things different. However, we all must change with the times and that is something that bigboy (obviously) hasn't done. People are looking to hire proffessional companies and image is important.... isn't that exactly what we are selling? It makes it hard to sell something we aren't willing to practice. Think about it, who is going to get more money for the work they do? a nasty rig or a clean rig? Who is the customer going to choose to do their cleaning? Take several estimates from several different companies and the customer sees everyone's equipment, they will lean towards the one that looks more proffessional. This is exactly why I had no competition when I was washing. Neat and clean is what all of us are trying to sell yet some of us can't even clean up and take care of our own equipment... how is that supposed to be effective?

I'm not trying to pick on anyone here. I'm just making these statements in general and I'm sure there are some guys that may think about it. Others will continue keep their stuff looking nasty. Either way it takes time and money to do this. Customers like to see that we care about our equipment enough to maintain it and put money into it. The day we stop doing this, we join the ranks of the other 90% of our industry.... Either way one chooses is up to them. That's what makes the world go around. Neither one is right or wrong, just different and that's ok.

Anway... you mentioned the machine in your post Ron. I have already built what you are talking about. One thing though that I have to disagree on is your upstream soap. I've used it. Heck my second machine I ever had was a clutch system with remote gun and it upstreamed soap. I had one button to start the pressure washer, one to engage the clutch and 2 others to select different soaps. It was great, except the upstream, from my experience in washing truck after truck, after truck, was not as effective as the low pressure soap. There was also more overspray with that kind of system and I couldn't soap at longer distances effectively enough. It also didn't foam as well. Not pulling a trigger was great too. But when I pushed the button the reaction wasn't immediate. Sometimes it would cause static on my customers' home (cordless) phone.

Another downside to that is the time it took for the soap to come out to the end of the wand. I mean, once I pushed the button on the gun, I had to wait for the soap to travel through the pump and then through the burner coils, and then through the jumper hose and finally into my hose reel where I had to wait again for the soap to travel to the end of the wand. That took too much time. So you had to get accustomed to waiting for your soap and then if you hit the wrong button, it took too much time to find out. That and you wasted chemical.

The other thing about that was the additional items that had to be worked on. You have additonal valves and plungers that go bad and always at the wrong time. You have the remote with batteries that have to be charged or replaced. There are controls and antennas and all that crap. Most remotes are line of site... how often are we out of the line of sight of our equipment? Lot's of additonal things here to keep in mind. Not only that, but the cost is much higher.

In the past I spent a lot of time washing with many set-ups and several different ways. To give you an idea of what I've washed I will tell you.... I used to wash USF Holland every weekend, all weekend. Endless amount of trucks and trailers. Sysco, Pepsi, Penske, Coke, Waste Management, Arrow Uniform, and many many smaller companies. On top of that, houses and decks. This was every day. I started with a remote system and upstream and you all see what I choose to use now. There's a reason for this and everyone will try different things but I know what I've tried and know what works and upstreaming chems to wash quickly does not work nearly as well as downstreaming.

Extension wand or not extension wand, I choose not. Why, because I have used them and through trial and error I have found that what works best for me and my customer is getting up there on a ladder with an stand-off and washing it directly and actually removing the grime. X-jet or no X-jet, I choose not to go with the x-jet because with the system I use I can get the soap to the height I need it with no problems at all.

My point being, we all have different preferences and what works for some may or may not work for others. I have founded what I have learned, not from the boards, but from experience. That is why everyone who uses my system of washing is still using my system of washing today. With the exception of the decks... my system is maninly for houses and fleets. It's fast and responsive. Our injector is on the reel and when you want soap the only travelling it does is through the hose to the end of your wand. We don't carry buckets or have expensive parts to fix and rarely do we have to leave a job due to a breakdown. That works and works well. To be neat, effective, efficient and fast is exactly what most of us want... right?

As far as the remote.... I have one. I also have a clutch that is great. Matter of fact, it wasn't only a month ago that I installed a system like you are talking about. Today we do the remotes for those who want them. They cost. My remotes aren't line of sight though. and they can go 300 or more yards. The best way we've found to use these is with the downstream system that we use. Simply start the machine with one button and change the soap with the other buttons... no clutch. Clutch can be installed and it will work well but that's just something else that has to be fixed should it break.

Anyway, I rattle on about this for a while now and hopefully I didn't piss anyone off with the downstream/upstream thing. I know we have a lot of upstream fans around this town.

Good post Ron.

Mike (oneness).... nice picture :)
 
The clutch I am talking about mounts on the pump. It's a one wire clutch that when dis-engaged the pully spins without spinning the pump. When engaged it turns the pump. Basically you can use a gun without a trigger so long as you have a method to engage and dis-engage your clutch.

This is the kind we install. We have to change the pulley size on the engine also to get it right.

Hope this helps.
 
Ron:

Using your system, if you opened the valve for, say, bleach and also the valve for soap, wouldn't you then be drawing 1/2 as much of each? I mean, if you had ONLY the bleach valve open, and your downstreamer was drawing 10:1, you'd be getting 1 gallon of bleach to 10 gallons of water. If you then opened the soap valve, wouldn't you then be drawing a 20:1 ratio of each? 1 gallon of bleach and 1 gallon of soap for every 20 gallons of water?

Have you tried using more than one downstreamer at a time, and if so, does it work?
 
Justin:

So basically, you save the wear and tear on the pump only, but you increase your cost in installing and maintaining the clutch system...and you also get the benefit of using an open gun.

doesn't sound like I'd benefit from this sytem at this point. Triggers don't bother me, and the money I'd spend on installing and maintaining the clutch system can just to to replace the pump when/if that becomes a problem.

Thanks!
 
oNENESS, THEY MAKE A DIFFRENT PULLY SYSTEM THAT DIS-ENGAGES THE Pump when you release the trigger.
It work's like an unloader but instead of routeing water it just stop's running the pump.
no over heating of the pump,less hour's on the pump.
Also it can be set-up to return the engine to idel not full RPM's.
This type of set-up is for guy's who start and stop a lot.
House washer's are good for this.
Truck washer's that brush.
truck washer's that need to move truck's
ect....
Justin, i respect your time spent and i am sure i can learn from you.
What is/was the story with that soap GWAS was talking about?
Hot,high pressure soap wwith a duel lance and hot acid in the downstreamer was what ive learned to use. I also use a 2 man crew. The second guy uses degreaser in the downstreamer and cold water wax to rinse my hot water soap.
I mainly wash tandem's used to haul sand gravel blacktop and dirt.
Im going full time next week and want to get some of that cosmetic truck washing. You know, no raiseing body's,degreaseing, 15 min of just blasting off wet sand.
No one truck with paint,raw alum,polished alum,chrome,plastic
6 mirror's,12 light's that drip acid on the raw alum and make black streak's, no moveing every truck, no working in the mud.
Give me a 100 truck's, all one color with some raw alum or chrome, on blacktop and evenly spaced. Heaven.
Brown derby and HF. gO MAN GO.
 
Fantastic posts, gentlemen! I have got to get my head out of my a-- and start thinking things through a bit more. These are great modifications/set ups. I will definitely make a change for the better using these suggestions. The bucket madness will end by the end of this week!

Thank you very much for your commments.

Take care

Ron
 
Ron,

If I understand you post correctly, you are downstreaming chemical through your 50' high-pressure hose. Your chem hose is only a few feet long to the bucket, right? Your question is whether adding more high-pressure hose will affect your draw rate, correct? Assuming I understand your question, the answer is "It depends".

I run 200' to 250' all the time with no problem, but I also use a larger bore injector. To find out how it will work for you, add sections of hose, one at a time, and check the draw. Hope that helps.
 
Ron,good luck with your full time venture.

Justin,i would like to see a pic of one of your remote units,what price do you sell them at?
 
Justin KO [THE RED RAIDER?]
aS LONG AS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT DOWNSTREAMING.
Has anyone hear herd of these "shooter tip's''
They work with your downstreamer but shoot chem 30 ft.
The% of chem is the same as low pressure downstreaming and not as high as a x-jet but YOU CAN ADJUST YOUR MIX.
I am going to order a couple and let you know the result's.
I am also going to try 2 downstreamer's and a shooter tip to see the chem % compared to my x-jet.
Lastly i'll hook up a shur-flo pump to push the chem to the downstreamer and out to the shooter tip.
Has anyone tried any of these thing's?
I know GLENN has tried the "booster" [shur-flo] to get a higher % out of the downstreamer.
 
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