Coil

C

Chris Tharpe

New member
Take a look at this coil. Its about 8 months old now and has quite a few hours on it but look at the inner ring. I am partictularly unhappy with this unit itself however the other PP skid i have has been great. This one has just been a demon. Motor shot first, 4-5 pressure switches, packings, coil sooted up really bad, a transformer, and now seems a solenoid is bad as well. I would love to spend another 5k on top of the 6500 to have a machine that would not always tear up. Any thoughts on a machine that will not give so many problems or do I just have the dreaded lemon
 

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That's pretty ugly. Needs a new liner welded inside, then a repack.

Are you particularly hard on this machine?
 
I have recently replaced a coil in my hydrotek, that was not fun. I also have a alkota hot box that was blowing out dark black smoke and I ignored it until the water would no longer get hot. I have an enclosed trailer rig, and the problem was that I did not have the right intake of oxygen, an easy fix but I waited to long. The coil was then covered in soot that acted as insulation not allowing the water to be heated and it would still blow out soot and black smoke no matter what the oxygen level. I simply blew out the coil and casing with an air compressor. I also had to replace some of the insulation. This took some time and man was it a dirty job, but we are used to that right,somebody needs to call Mike Rowe from dirty jobs lol. This fixed the problem, now runs great. Moral of the story... maintain correct oxygen levels. Hope this helps somebody avoid the trouble I went through.
 
Russ Johnson said:
That's pretty ugly. Needs a new liner welded inside, then a repack.

Are you particularly hard on this machine?
Click to expand...


Not too hard, it runs about 45 hours per week. It has more than paid for itself however Landa is starting to look really good compared to the lasting problems of this partictular Pressure Pro machine
 
Russ, and others that have experience troubleshooting burners and coils.



I have spoken with Bob about this partictular unit. The burner on it is a beckett 12v ADC model. were having a problem with fuel still misting very slightly after the flame goes out ( ball valve closed and machine goes into bypass) I have another 5.5 machine that has the exact burner, fuel nozzle, selenoid, and fuel pump on it. I took the pump and selenoid off the new unit and put it onto this machine. I am still having fuel coming out of the nozzle after the pressure switch is not in the on position. If you push the pressure switch then it ignites, however it does not ignite untill then as it should. What could the problem be with this thing. Its also a clean cut fuel pump
 
I don't care for the clean cut fuel pump, especially on a machine such as yours, where the whole burner starts and stops with the trigger. It may stop the flow as soon as the gun is released, but on start up, the fuel solenoid opens before the pump is up to full pressure, allowing fuel to dribble as it comes up to speed, giving a dirty fire up. I have rewired these kinds of machines so the burner runs when the switch is turned on, and the pressure switch operates the solenoid only. Another alternative is to use a standard fuel pump (A2VA-7116), and set the cut out pressure just below operating pressure. That way, the fuel pump won't start pushing fuel until operating pressure is achieved, and shuts off as soon as the fuel pump starts to slow down.
 
I think thats how the pressure switch is wired. If i am not mistaken the positive 12v wire is being routed through the pressure switch and the thermostat so as to only operate the fuel solenoid.

What explains the fuel dribbling on 2 different pumps and solenoids?

On another note, what could keep fuel from spraying if the pressure switch, thermo were working properly, the machine has spark, and the solenoid is charged when the pressure switch is active or button is pushed by hand. This is another machine I had go down last night. Also Fuel is being redirected back to the tank so fuel is getting there it just won't get into the chamber to ignite?
 
No complaints with my landa or hotsy units. only one my landa unit is super heavy. you can realy feel it on the trailer. but i think its the 3/4" coil
 
I wonder if the Pressure Pro people read these boards, if not they should be as this is showing what kind of quality, help after the sale and how their customers are treated.

It does not matter from which supplier or vendor you bought it from, if that manufacturer is not going to be there to help after the sale then honestly, why buy thier equipment???

I like the vendors on the boards but these Pressure Pro machines are starting to make me think of other brands to purchase like the Hotsy, Landa, Alkota and the new Delco units for commercial work.

Sure they are more expensive but those companies have great service and help after the sale and you do not hear problems about them like the Pressure Pro units.

Seems like the Pressure Pro units are maybe a heavy residential unit but not made for commercial use???

I have heard very few bad things about the Hotsy and Landa but Never anything bad about the Alkota machines. With the Delco units, I have heard some good things but nothing bad so far.

Pressure Pro needs to pull their head out of their A**, step up to the plate and start doing some service after the sale or they might start to lose a lot of sales quick.

Whoever is the person doing their engineering needs to be fired and someone that knows more than just bolting parts together needs to be brought in and given the task of making sure components are matched and built for commercial use.

When you have a 5.5 gpm unit that heats the water sufficiently, you cannot expect an 8gpm unit to use the same burner or coil can you? No you can't.

A lot of contractors read these boards and these posts are searchable on the internet.

If I did not get this great deal on some used Landa machines, I was seriously considering getting some of the Pressure Pro units, I have an 8gpm cold water unit and it is holding up great. Maybe they need to stick to only cold water units???

Not trying to hammer on that company but come on, with this many problems you would think that a company would offer to send out a loaner skid and pay to have that problematic unit sent back to see what is wrong and fix the problem.

When real companies do this it is called Recalls, they fix the problem to both help their customers and prevent lawsuits from possible injuries or death that could result.

With these problems, people could possibly get hurt using those machines, I am not sure but it looks like that is a possibility.

Ok, I am done ranting. hahahahaha
 
mobilewashpros said:
I think thats how the pressure switch is wired. If i am not mistaken the positive 12v wire is being routed through the pressure switch and the thermostat so as to only operate the fuel solenoid.

What explains the fuel dribbling on 2 different pumps and solenoids?
Click to expand...

So, you're saying that when you flip the burner switch on, the burner motor and transformer energize? Take a voltage reading at the plug that attaches to the solenoid coil when it should be shut off. See if there is any low voltage bleed through. If so, pull the coil off the post and see if the fuel stops.

I take it you didn't get any afterburn dribble on the donor machine?

mobilewashpros said:
On another note, what could keep fuel from spraying if the pressure switch, thermo were working properly, the machine has spark, and the solenoid is charged when the pressure switch is active or button is pushed by hand. This is another machine I had go down last night. Also Fuel is being redirected back to the tank so fuel is getting there it just won't get into the chamber to ignite?
Click to expand...

Could be the solenoid coil is bad. Pull it off the post, energize the system, get a small screwdriver to shove into the hole on the coil, and see if the coil grabs it. If it does, could be a stuck plunger in the solenoid post, or it may be a weak fuel pump not developing enough pressure to overcome the pressure setting. Backing the fuel pressure off will sometimes show that, as it will light (or at least spray fuel) at the reduced pressure.
 
Chris, I think you're rant is a little misplaced because you really don't have a dog in this fight. Plus, the OP stated that he has another Pressure Pro that has not been a problem. Once in a while a problem comes to light with a particular piece of equipment. The difficulty starts at the purchase end of things. You don't see any of the problems with Landa, Hotsy, HydroTek, etc. because they are not available for sale on the internet at bargain basement prices. They are purchased through authorized distributors at a local level, and all problems are addressed in the sellers' shops. I have had brand new Delcos, sold at retail in my store, that have had problems. One required a coil replacement. The warranty repair was covered by Delco, parts and labor, with no problem at all. When you buy at "dealer net", you have to expect to be treated as a dealer would, troubleshooting your own problems, doing your own repair labor, paying your own freight on replacement parts, etc.


Recalls are taken care of at the dealer level. My Sonoma had a recall on the tailgate cables. I had to take the truck to my local GMC dealer and drop it off for repair, and pick it up the following day. I didn't expect Detroit to send me a loaner truck or pay for the truck to be shipped back to Canada or wherever it was made.

I'm not trying to piss anyone off, least of all you, Chris, because you buy from me, but I am trying to get to the fact that there are different ways to buy, and pluses and minuses to all of them.

Home Depot sells at just over wholesale. Do they service the products they sell? No. You are responsible for getting the equipment to an authorized service center either by taking it or sending it (at your expense). Then you wait until they fix your problem (sometimes 2 -3 weeks), and go pick it up or pay to have it shipped back to you.
 
No problem Russ.

I was just a little ticked off at that time when I wrote it.

I know that if you were the manufacturer of that equipment, the support and service would be totally different than what he has been getting, a lot better in every way.

You are a very knowledgeable guy and a great help Russ, Thanks.
 
Russ Johnson said:
So, you're saying that when you flip the burner switch on, the burner motor and transformer energize? Take a voltage reading at the plug that attaches to the solenoid coil when it should be shut off. See if there is any low voltage bleed through. If so, pull the coil off the post and see if the fuel stops

Could be the solenoid coil is bad. Pull it off the post, energize the system, get a small screwdriver to shove into the hole on the coil, and see if the coil grabs it. If it does, could be a stuck plunger in the solenoid post, or it may be a weak fuel pump not developing enough pressure to overcome the pressure setting. Backing the fuel pressure off will sometimes show that, as it will light (or at least spray fuel) at the reduced pressure.
Click to expand...

I take it you didn't get any afterburn dribble on the donor machine? There was no dribble on the machine it came off of. It is about 1 month old and works well. The fuel was adjusted on the fuel pump as well as the air bands when we put it back onto the machine. I will use the fuel pressure gauge tomorrow and set it to 140psi. When setting the air bands, what should I be looking for in the flame. There is basically only 2 options a large flame with little force behind it that burns really hot, or a shorter flame that produces a tight pattern and seems to not be very hot. The screwdriver trick works on the solenoid itself, is that what your talking about above, or are you meaning to remove the post itself and see if the hole the post screws into is magnetized.
 
I am waiting to speak to another vendor on monday on whats he thinks is the next best step. I have spoken with PP on this issue and basically I am getting the usual. Send it back to us and let us go through it. I would have no problem doing this however it will cost me at least 5 working days and its not worth the loss of income. 5 days is if everything went well but were probably talking 8 working days and possibly 2 weekend days and I just cannot afford to be down to two machines for that amount of time not to mention the loss of revenue during that time would be very substantial so this is not an option for me. I have no problem turning wrenches for my own machines what so ever. Its actually like a challenge to me to fix things and I love that challenge. The only problem I have is when I replaced a transformer 3 weeks ago, then replaced it again the other night. I have a feeling the transformers went south due to sooting but I am not sure thats possible. I have had a new motor that Honda actually warrantied, you can see the coil above and whats happened to it, the panels are falling off (not such a big deal because most of them are in the way all the time its just the fact that they fall off) pressure switches, transformers, an unloader (at 6 months old) packings (not their issue). This all to me is alot of things to replace when others are running different brands of machines and they may replace something once in 4 years.

I go through pressure switches like crazy on this machine as well however its not the micro-switch its the plunger that starts to work improperly. This yet again is not such a big deal however when the person running that trailer does not know how to replace it, this costs me money so it gets a little aggravating. There is a long list of things I have replaced on this machine but the most aggravating are the little things like having a transformer go out and not having a spare around because the spare is already being used and it costs nearly $200 locally where as we can all get them for less than half of that. I am trying to put together a trouble shooting chart so these things can be repaired in the field by others.

With all this aside I am not pointing the fingers at anyone here. There may be something else wrong with the machine thats the root cause and its being overlooked IE. low voltage or something similar to that.

My only questions are
Would a SDC burner be a better fit for this 8gpm machine?

If there is fuel drip on this new fuel pump and solenoid while the fuel pressure is set to pressure pro's specs, what else could cause this sort of epidemic?

Could a bad nozzle cause this in any sort of crazy situation?

I am going to go through everything tomorrow and even go to the extent of placing the burner off of the new 5.5 machine over onto this machine. I will definatly know then if it is still leaking there is a problem elsewhere which could be as small as a nozzle or as easy as a bad solenoid. This is only one of 3 machines that are the burner is down on at this present time so tomorrow is going to be a work on equipment day.



Christopher said:
I wonder if the Pressure Pro people read these boards, if not they should be as this is showing what kind of quality, help after the sale and how their customers are treated.

It does not matter from which supplier or vendor you bought it from, if that manufacturer is not going to be there to help after the sale then honestly, why buy thier equipment???

I like the vendors on the boards but these Pressure Pro machines are starting to make me think of other brands to purchase like the Hotsy, Landa, Alkota and the new Delco units for commercial work.

Sure they are more expensive but those companies have great service and help after the sale and you do not hear problems about them like the Pressure Pro units.

Seems like the Pressure Pro units are maybe a heavy residential unit but not made for commercial use???

I have heard very few bad things about the Hotsy and Landa but Never anything bad about the Alkota machines. With the Delco units, I have heard some good things but nothing bad so far.

Pressure Pro needs to pull their head out of their A**, step up to the plate and start doing some service after the sale or they might start to lose a lot of sales quick.

Whoever is the person doing their engineering needs to be fired and someone that knows more than just bolting parts together needs to be brought in and given the task of making sure components are matched and built for commercial use.

When you have a 5.5 gpm unit that heats the water sufficiently, you cannot expect an 8gpm unit to use the same burner or coil can you? No you can't.

A lot of contractors read these boards and these posts are searchable on the internet.

If I did not get this great deal on some used Landa machines, I was seriously considering getting some of the Pressure Pro units, I have an 8gpm cold water unit and it is holding up great. Maybe they need to stick to only cold water units???

Not trying to hammer on that company but come on, with this many problems you would think that a company would offer to send out a loaner skid and pay to have that problematic unit sent back to see what is wrong and fix the problem.

When real companies do this it is called Recalls, they fix the problem to both help their customers and prevent lawsuits from possible injuries or death that could result.

With these problems, people could possibly get hurt using those machines, I am not sure but it looks like that is a possibility.

Ok, I am done ranting. hahahahaha
Click to expand...

Russ Johnson said:
Chris, I think you're rant is a little misplaced because you really don't have a dog in this fight. Plus, the OP stated that he has another Pressure Pro that has not been a problem. Once in a while a problem comes to light with a particular piece of equipment. The difficulty starts at the purchase end of things. You don't see any of the problems with Landa, Hotsy, HydroTek, etc. because they are not available for sale on the internet at bargain basement prices. They are purchased through authorized distributors at a local level, and all problems are addressed in the sellers' shops. I have had brand new Delcos, sold at retail in my store, that have had problems. One required a coil replacement. The warranty repair was covered by Delco, parts and labor, with no problem at all. When you buy at "dealer net", you have to expect to be treated as a dealer would, troubleshooting your own problems, doing your own repair labor, paying your own freight on replacement parts, etc.


Recalls are taken care of at the dealer level. My Sonoma had a recall on the tailgate cables. I had to take the truck to my local GMC dealer and drop it off for repair, and pick it up the following day. I didn't expect Detroit to send me a loaner truck or pay for the truck to be shipped back to Canada or wherever it was made.

I'm not trying to piss anyone off, least of all you, Chris, because you buy from me, but I am trying to get to the fact that there are different ways to buy, and pluses and minuses to all of them.

Home Depot sells at just over wholesale. Do they service the products they sell? No. You are responsible for getting the equipment to an authorized service center either by taking it or sending it (at your expense). Then you wait until they fix your problem (sometimes 2 -3 weeks), and go pick it up or pay to have it shipped back to you.
Click to expand...
 
Russ Johnson said:
Chris, I think you're rant is a little misplaced because you really don't have a dog in this fight. Plus, the OP stated that he has another Pressure Pro that has not been a problem. Once in a while a problem comes to light with a particular piece of equipment. The difficulty starts at the purchase end of things. You don't see any of the problems with Landa, Hotsy, HydroTek, etc. because they are not available for sale on the internet at bargain basement prices. They are purchased through authorized distributors at a local level, and all problems are addressed in the sellers' shops. I have had brand new Delcos, sold at retail in my store, that have had problems. One required a coil replacement. The warranty repair was covered by Delco, parts and labor, with no problem at all. When you buy at "dealer net", you have to expect to be treated as a dealer would, troubleshooting your own problems, doing your own repair labor, paying your own freight on replacement parts, etc.


Recalls are taken care of at the dealer level. My Sonoma had a recall on the tailgate cables. I had to take the truck to my local GMC dealer and drop it off for repair, and pick it up the following day. I didn't expect Detroit to send me a loaner truck or pay for the truck to be shipped back to Canada or wherever it was made.

I'm not trying to piss anyone off, least of all you, Chris, because you buy from me, but I am trying to get to the fact that there are different ways to buy, and pluses and minuses to all of them.

Home Depot sells at just over wholesale. Do they service the products they sell? No. You are responsible for getting the equipment to an authorized service center either by taking it or sending it (at your expense). Then you wait until they fix your problem (sometimes 2 -3 weeks), and go pick it up or pay to have it shipped back to you.
Click to expand...


Cancel that Russ, take a look at this coil. This machine is roughly 9 months old now (the machine that was running without problems). The coil looks like it has been through the cold war. The 5.5 gpm pressure pro machines have a new coil insulation design that was very efficient (IMO) and seemed to do a great job. The only problem is that it collapsed causing the flame to blow back into the burner endcap and severally damaged it. Are we just too hard on these machines or are we just having a run of bad luck?
 

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cheap equipment = pathetic results

That coil is a pathetic mess..
thin sheetmetal, unsupported insulation,
a pressure switch instead of a flow switch.. PATHETIC !
I am embarrassed for the equipment end of this industry, as that level of workmanship is the standard. :thud:

The next time you ask "how much"..
make damn sure you don't get stuck with "dirty-cheap"
you need reliability, serviceability, and NO perpetuating mistsakes.
..if you really want profitability. Eh?
 
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