Chem's and Ratio's

[Waterboy]

Moving on to next confusing question that I have partial understanding of.

I can understand taking a certain chem and mixing it with water in a bucket or hand held sprayer and applying it according to spec. ex. 10:1 or 20:1

What I am confused on is the draw if I use a chemical tip with the machine.

1)Does it depend what size hose I use? (will be 3/8")

2)Does it Depend on GPM of the machine? (will be 4gpm)

3)What kind of ratio would be the end result w/ a chem tip and drawing from chemical right out of the bottle ?(full strength)

4)Is this the right or best way to apply chemicals to surface?

5) some post recommend applying chems with Xjet. Is that the way to go?

This is alot of questions to answer about the same issue, sorry about that. I am just thristy for knowledge I guess.

Well any question answered will put me closer on the right track.

Thanks for help.

Robert
Precision Power Cleaning

 

[ron p]

downstream and upstream injection

they are somewhat unreliable.
Some claim to draw better then others.
What you should do is get a 5 gal bucket and put some water in it ,then draw a line on that water mark.
Then add 1 gal of water to the bucket. Then put the downstream injection hose into the bucket. Open it all the way if it's adjustable. Then use your soap tip on the lance.
Start the wash unit and time how long it takes to draw 1 gal from the pail.
Then you now now how long it takes to draw 1 gal.
Now you should know your GPM of your pump[let's use a 5 gpm pump for this]
So let's say it took 5 min to draw 1 gal of chem with a 5 gpm pump
Thats 25 gal of water to 1 gal of chem
So thats 25 to 1
if it took 4 min
20 to 1
and so on...
Some injectors are better then others but most are around 20%.
A x-jet is good for chems that you need at high strangth.[like bleach] You can drain a 5 gal pail of chem in 3 to 5 min.
It can also shoot that amount of chem 35 ft.[good for housewashing] It also has a close range tip you can buy.
The drawback to this tip is that you need to take the chem to the tip. So meny find this too big a problem.
Hose size wont matter in the draw rate of the downstreamer but the langth of the hose will. 150 ft is max.
Downstream inj works because you drop the pressure at the tip.
A x-jet is used under high pressure.
Upstream inj. is good but there are a lot of chems you dont want to run threw your pump. Like acid,bleach,ect...
Some find high pressure soap to be very effective.
Lastly is direct application of chem.
Like pump-up garden sprayers,bucket and brush,a electric/12 volt pump that can pump full strangth chems[flo-jet/shr-flo].
Depending on what chem,how strong,control,and distance. You may need more then 1 way or be like me and have them all.
Steve Rowlett is also selling valves that go right into the raw chem and are metered with the valve.
Go to his site to check out the pics.
www.thecleanernetwork.com search word DEMA valves.
hope this helps

 

[Dave Olson]

Hello Robert,

I do not use up or down stream. Mostly we use a hose-end sprayer. I will post a picture. There is a slide bar on the top of the head that can be moved to change the ratio of the detergent/degreaser/acid being applied. This head has a range of 9-1 up to 3-1. One of the jugs in the picture shows a foam tip and the other is a deflector to make a fan spray.

These sprayers are made by Gilmour. Call them for information if you are interested, on a distributor in your area 800-458-0107.

Dave Olson

Ps: I will make additional posts to show you some of our other tools. Haven't figured out how to post more than one pic at a time!

 

[Dave Olson]

We use diaphram pumps when we want to apply stronger that 3-1. This picture shows one of these pumps in a kitchen applying a caustic degreaser.

It sits over a 5 gallon jug and the suction line runs into the jug.

For smaller areas we use pump-up sprayers.

 

[Dave Olson]

Here is a picture of the end of one of our hoses. Ballvalve with stainless quick coupler.

 

[Waterboy]

Ron - Thanks for all the info, couldn't ask for greater detail!

Took me a few times reading the 5 gal bucket method to get it but it clicked. I will defiantly try this.

Your response did bring up a question about down streamer vs. up streamer.

Wouldn't the down stream be a lot better for the machine in all situations? What would be the benefits of an upstream where chems would harm the machine be?

I will also check out Steve's site for this method. This is good that I have another option (I think) but would like to also know what way do you use most often, different situations aside.

Dave - Thanks for the pics and info.

I have heard of these types of sprayers from local dist. I called to ask him about X-jet and he had said they don't offer it due to overspray issues and that these produce foam that aids in chem effectiveness. Not sure how true this was, his profit might have been higher with these then Xjet

At least now I can call Gilmour to compare price.

What if you need higher then 9:1 out of sprayer?

Last question would be what is ball valve used for?

Mucho Gracias

Robert
Precision Power Cleaning

 

[ron p]

robert

Dave Olsen uses the high pressure ball valve INSTEAD of a trigger gun. Trigger guns get messed up all the time and the ball valve will last for a long time.
If you are new i suggest you use the trigger gun for a while before you try the ball valve thing. The trigger gun will shut off if you drop it.
As far as the x-jet,it is a tool. You can make one yourself for about $20 from home depot. It will be about 2/3rds as good as a real x-jet but it will give you an idea if you want one.[no close range tip]
a simple HOSE BARB with a quick disconnect [plug] screwed into it.
cost [$3] and your downstreamer.
As far as upstreaming[before the pump] i upstream my soap,my wax,rinse agents,because i feel hot high pressure soap cleans better then applying the soap,letting it dwell,then rinse off.
[for fleets] Some like to do it one way,others another.
It is an option for you to try and see what you like.
OVERSPRAY from a x-jet. Yes it happens, Windy days.
If you want to wash a house and be fast at it you learn to deal with it. I have washed houses that are 12 ft apart but i also took out the limonlene from my mix on that side of the home. It's hell on glass if it dries. I think cars are the biggest problem. If someone is home i simply ask them very politly to move them. If no one is home they get a free car wash.
Depending on what your washing for 10 to 1 or lower a lot of people just use a set-up that is a hand cart,20 gal drum,battery[marine] shr-flo 12 volt pump,suply hose and trigger gun. With this set-up you can apply any chem[as long as you buy the right pump] in any delution you want.
You can buy this set-up from most PW supply stores.
Around $200. Diffrent size pumps will shoot the chem as short or far as you will need.

 

[paul-uk]

ron

the close range tip for the x-jet......what situations would you use it for please.

paul.

 

[ron p]

PAUL

You could you the close range tip for when the houses are close together,when you want to apply chem to flatwork,tree spraying,trucks,planes,the first 6 ft of house washing[sometimes the whole house if it's one story]
If you use full pressure it can do damage at close range
it also goes up the weep holes and you get dirt drips or your chem hides and leaks out later leaving streaks.
Siding was never ment to have water shot UP on it,just down.
You can apply some wood strippers with it but you loose some control of overspray.
Paul i want to be the fastest house washer around.
I am going to tape a chem supply line to my 150 ft of pressure line.
Then use a shr-flo 12 volt pump or a 120 volt pump and my gen. to force the mix to the tip. That way i can mix 55 gal of house wash a day and never carry buckets.
My other option might be to just use another pressure washer to squirt the chem right threw the pump.
I know the bleach will effect it after a while but heck the ts2021 pump is only $280 now. If i rinse it out after every job it should last at least a year.
That would be fine with me if i get 100 $150 house's
that is my goal. That and double the amount of trucks i wash.
I have come to the conclusion that a one man show cant make it in the wood end of the bissness.
The season in NJ is just too short and the selling takes too much time for 1 job. If i were to the point of hireing people then i would do wood. I wont turn down deck jobs but i wont be cheap.

 

[paul-uk]

ron...fine on the soap tip

all clear on that.......about taping the chem line to your supply line but how long would the tape last with all the dragging about its a lot of wear that way.......there was a thread about using another washer for putting the chems on not to sure posted it and i think chuck uses his machine with a dual wand but downstreams it...uses bleach on his roofs......hope someone who has used a washer to put chem on with chips in.

fine on the wood just do them as they come along at your price but they must be the most satisfying job to do as some of the decks that are posted on these bbs are fantasic.

good luck this year with going full time i dont think you will have any trouble getting where you want to be as you are always thinking ahead.

cheers paul.