mistersqueegee
New member
Al what about the principle that evil prospers when good men do nothing? Those others are lying and slandering. It will only get worse if no one addresses it.
Can someone explain something to me?
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Al Patterson
Member
It's all in the way you address it.....if you have the same anger or hate you are no better....
Doug Rucker
Roundtable Host 2009
Get a good laugh out of it and move on. That's what I do. If you take care of your Character, God will take of your reputation. There will always be critics for everything you do. Find the little bit if truth in it, if there is any, and throw the rest out.
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
With all due respect Al this isn't the playground. When people become adults they have choices to make between right and wrong. Adults break off and choose which side they want to take. It then becomes our adult responsibility to use our brains and our morals to sift through the garbage and seek out the truth and determine which side is right and bond with it.
In this case one side yells and screams a lot of accusations with nothing to back it up but "feelings" and "suspicions". The other side brings forth indisputable written facts.
There is a third course one can take that you have apparently chosen. That being to stick your head in the sand and cry for everyone to just get along. God gave us a mind to make choices with. He has expressly told us that lying is wrong. If you think getting along together in peace is more important than standing up for the truth than you have made your choice and have allowed the lying side to win.
I am, and will forever be in opposition to that and you until you learn that this isn't the playground anymore and take a stand for truth.
God took a stand too. He charged the Jews with crying "Peace, peace when there is no peace". In other words they no longer fought against evil, such as lies. He was not pleased with that course of action and punished them for it. One must strive for peace, but peace can only exist where there is truth. It is our duty to oppose forces that use lies and deception.
Good luck Al. Please dig deeper than the surface of snippets from the new testament and join in the fight for truth. With your help we can root out those who stand in the way of peace.
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2
Al Patterson
Member
Snippets from the new testaments....might not be the best choice of words......
and you are deftly entitled to have your opinion of me... thats alright too
and you are deftly entitled to have your opinion of me... thats alright too
Rance
Active member
I joined the UAMCC for a reason but it wasn't until after certain people were banned from here. The actions of the leadership here shows honesty, integrity, high moral standards. Nothing is sugar coated, they tell it like it is. They show passion in what they believe in. I don't know all the backgrounds of everybody here or there but I believe I know enough to make a decision to be apart of a national org. that I feel is taking steps in the right direction to help this industry. That is some of the reasons I am here and not over there. There are a lot of people to thank for working hard and giving of themselves to better this industry and Ron is definitely one of them. All any good person has to do is start reading through the forums and they can see for themselves who is helping others and who is just talking smack. I know it doesn't take a genius to see it because I'm not a genius. If one wants to be successful, they must surround themselves with people that are successful. Another reason why I am here and not there. Thanks to you as well Tony S. I have learned a lot from your post. You even took the time to call me and explain some things to me. Keep fighting the good fight. Evil will never win.
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
It was the perfect choice of words Al.
The devil has done some of his most effective work using phrases and verses taken out of context or misunderstood to destroy good people and the church. Paul was a perfect example. He killed Christians because his understanding of the scriptures was wrong. He thought he was doing right. God chose him and verified that his heart was right. But that didn't help Stephen and the other Christians he had already killed because of his faulty understanding of the scriptures.
People argue about things. People disagree. It is our duty to make peace when both sides are honest enough to accept the truth. But when one side bases their stance on nothing but lies with no evidence to back it up, there can be "no peace".
Here is just one small example From John Tornebene on TGS:
Yet you have Ron & Tony who snuck past the ladies working the tables for people to enter our Vegas Event. They both took pictures of Nigel and cracked how bad of a job these wives did in not catching them.
Not only did we never step foot into their event. We were repeatedly invited inside by the regional Dodge Rep who was in the hall most of the time. We declined the invitation and explained to him that we were not invited and had not paid and would not go inside in spite of his repeated claims of "I'm sure they won't mind". If anyone is interested in the truth of this matter call me and I'll get out his business card and let you call him for yourself.
We never made it close enough to their event to know that there were any "ladies" at any table at the event at all other than Allison who we had lunch with in the Casino one day. This is all just made up.
John knows neither of us took any pictures of Nigel. He has the pictures. If anyone is concerned with the truth please ask him to produce one picture we took of Nigel. He also knows that Ron didn't take any pictures, I did. John claimed that we were lying when Ron texted him telling him we were at the casino, right outside. So I took a shot of a portion of the projection screen that I could see through the open door and sent it to John to prove we were there. He was the reason for the picture in the first place! If he had simply taken our word there would have been no reason to have to "prove" it to him.
And we "cracked how bad of a job the wives did in not catching them"? Really? Please use your brain for one moment. Ron......and me......."sneaking" into an open rectangular conference hall....sneaking........past "ladies"...... Are you kidding me? Picture every event you've ever been to and try to imagine the absurdity of this statement. Further, our conversations about that are in text messages. If anyone is interested in the truth, please ask John to produce the text messages where we "cracked how bad these wives did in not catching them". It is an absurd lie.
It's not good enough for John to lie, he has to make up outrageous details like this to back up the lies and make them more interesting.
Imagine sitting in the defendants seat in New York sometime in the past 20 years, with officer Tornebene at the stand:
DA "This man's wife claims he hit her, tell us what you saw Officer Tornebene"
"I saw the defendant hit his wife" Tornebene responds.
"THAT's A LIE!" the defendant exclaims from his chair prior to being restrained.
"Go on, officer"
"I saw her hit his wife with a bat.......and the he shot her.....with.....with a cannon....and then he raped a bystander before selling her some drugs".
LOL
See, once one has crossed that line into lying about things there is no way to have "peace" with them until they make the conscious decision to STOP LYING or you simply discredit them with the truth.
Like I said, call me and I will get anyone the info on the Dodge Rep who will tell anyone we never stepped foot inside their event.
Are you interested in the truth? Or are you interested in crying "Peace, Peace, when there is no peace" like our ancestors were?
Al Patterson
Member
Well I did not go to bible collage or any collage or that matter...so I have to keep things simple for me.
The way I understand what you are referring in your example with Paul is
Paul along with other religious Pharisees ect....they all thought they was doing Gods Will thru their interpretation of Gods Law.
Example....like when Pharisees told Jesus not heal on the Sabbath.
It is the way they interpreted Gods Law.
I believe Paul was a lost sinner (as was the people Paul led) up until the time he had his Devine interaction with God.
During that time he crucified many disciples and followers on the cross and had Steven Stoned.
I really like sharing this because it tells me even the worst of the worst can be Saved.
If God can save and transform someone who crucified Jesus followers probably by the hundreds if not thousands.....he can certainly forgive us any of our Sins.
Paul, like any one of us had to accept Jesus in his heart.
God gift to us is always there, but in order to receive it....you must realize you are a lost sinner and you must ask Jesus into your heart.
The way I understand what you are referring in your example with Paul is
Paul along with other religious Pharisees ect....they all thought they was doing Gods Will thru their interpretation of Gods Law.
Example....like when Pharisees told Jesus not heal on the Sabbath.
It is the way they interpreted Gods Law.
I believe Paul was a lost sinner (as was the people Paul led) up until the time he had his Devine interaction with God.
During that time he crucified many disciples and followers on the cross and had Steven Stoned.
I really like sharing this because it tells me even the worst of the worst can be Saved.
If God can save and transform someone who crucified Jesus followers probably by the hundreds if not thousands.....he can certainly forgive us any of our Sins.
Paul, like any one of us had to accept Jesus in his heart.
God gift to us is always there, but in order to receive it....you must realize you are a lost sinner and you must ask Jesus into your heart.
danwagner
Member
Again, some of the folks here and on many other forums deify their industries. PW, Window Cleaning etc. are not "higher causes"!
Unfortunately, Tony, the dilemma arises as to hearing two different stories that can hardly be reconciled. If I tend to believe the 'other side' then you will accuse me of calling you a liar and Ron will presume to say that I support the alleged actions of the 'other side'. And of course if I believe what is mostly said here about Chris, Thad and so on then I'm supposedly calling them liars. You know good and well that it may require more time for the real truth to be revealed. And perhaps as you said, things are being spun to a certain perspective. That can apply to both camps. Time will unspin what has been spun. Maybe some of these issues are not make or break issues. "There is a time to keep quiet and a time to speak". We've all got to decide for ourselves when those times are.
I agree with you on 1.
One may make a personal choice to give freely to his beloved industry. I feel that's good and admirable. However I don't feel it is inherently right, period, to do such a thing. I repeat, the cleaning industry is not a god. It is a viable means of attaining self-sufficiency for many of us. Whether almighty God has blessed our efforts or it is our energy and smarts, or even just coincidence that we do well is endlessly up for debate when you consider everyone's opinions. But if God has happened to bless your choice to do what you do for your family, HE is the one that we should give back to. Not saying you don't Tony. What I'm saying is that just because some bend over backwards and superextend themselves with events and the like, this doesn't inherently make them saints.
mistersqueegee
New member
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
Hello Dan. I guess we will just have to disagree on this. There are just too many places in the Bible that define our purpose here.
1) We are to do our work with all our might as if we were doing it for the Lord. Colossians 3:23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, (NIV)
2) Not all of us are teachers. Not all of us are put on this earth to spend our every moment doing Kingdom work. James 3:1 Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.
And when you say "He is the one we should give back to" are you thinking about the manner in which he instructed us to give back? We were given specific instructions in many places on how to give back to Him. Here is one as far back as Solomon. That theme is continued throughout the New Testament:
Proverbs 19:17 Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed.
Ephesians 4:28 Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need.
Solomon sums up the reason for our work pretty well here:
Ecclesiastes 3:9 What gain has the worker from his toil? 10 I have seen the business that God has given to the children of man to be busy with. 11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also, he has put eternity into man's heart, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end. 12 I perceived that there is nothing better for them than to be joyful and to do good as long as they live; 13 also that everyone should eat and drink and take pleasure in all his toil—this is God's gift to man.
So we are to work as if we are working for the Lord, give to and protect the poor, and enjoy the fruits of our labor. That is God's gift to us.
I can't speak for anyone else here. But I can speak for myself. I have a decent education. I have a gift for research and my writing skills are at least readable. God has blessed me and my family and given me a business that allows me to give to the poor not only monetarily, but with my time.
That is what I've been doing here for almost 5 years now. When I first spoke to Ron on the phone, in 2008, I told him that of all the boards I had ever been on, all the way back to BBS's in the 80's this was the first place I had ever seen where businessmen were open to help newcomers get into the business and if they had the skills and the determination, with a little help from PWI they could become sucessful (so that they, in turn, could help the poor).
My exact words to Ron were "This board shows the Christian spirit towards others more than any board I've ever been on".
In the first couple of months after I signed on to PWI I got two calls from remote areas of the country from one guy who was a drunk and another who was just scraping by. They told me they appreciated how I was willing to help guys like them who considered themselves poor. At that time a switch went off in my head.
I thought, maybe God has put me here because there is a need that I can fill here. I didn't know what that need was at the time, but eventually I came to realize that the industry was on the verge of being taken over by the wealthier contractors. I first saw it in KEC, where those who knew how to work the system eventually borrowed enough money to start buying out smaller contractors and sucking them dry. Then I saw the poor guys being sucked into the idea that there was no way they could work legally unless they borrow money to buy a bunch of unnecessary equipment.
So I put my nose to the grindstone to see if these things were true. It is my work Dan. My business almost runs itself. That give me time to work on what God may or may not have put me here for. This is my way of giving Dan. My time involved in this is worth much more (to me) than money. After my stroke I know my time here is limited. But I want to spend what is left of it doing good as much as I can.
And doing good does not mean burying my head in the sand and calling out for peace. We are to be the salt of the earth. Salt preserves. It doesn't sit off to the side and do nothing. It permeates. It works. That is what I am trying to do and I am doing it with all my might and doing it as if I am doing it for the Lord.
It's hard. Everyone wants to be liked. No one wants enemies. But it is impossible to fight against people who will lie and cheat without making some enemies.
I am sorry that it has to be that way. The one thing that would make me happier than anything else on earth would be if I could just work, come home, rest, spend time with my family, and not be concerned with what is happening here anymore.
But as long as there are dishonest selfish people willing to lie and cheat to put small guys out of business just to put a few more dollars in their pocket I can't rest.
Maybe I will die having accomplished nothing. But if that happens I will die knowing that I had a work here, and I did it as if I was doing it for the Lord.
Sorry for going on so long with this personal information. I hope you can at least see where my head and heart is in this constant battle that sometimes, to those who don't know all the details, just looks like petty arguing.
Christopher
Moderator
There is plenty of proof over the past year or so that many guys like Ron, Tony and Doug have posted to show what is really happening.
It is everyone's choice to believe who they want to but at least do yourself a huge favor and just watch how the bashing threads just start in the past many months and then disappear out of public view after people have been harassed. It should not even happen for people to be harassed.
When people have to constantly tear other people down, what does that say about their character?
What about starting threads to have 2 people discuss things, mention their names in the title of the thread without telling people that you are starting threads about them, using their names without their permission and trying to stir up some drama just because that person wants answers and it not going to stop the nonsense until he gets answers. Is this really normal behavior? I think that there needs some professional therapy, a padded room with some quality meds for this serious problem, this is just not normal in society to be doing this to other contractors just to stir up some un-needed drama again and again and again.
It is everyone's choice to believe who they want to but at least do yourself a huge favor and just watch how the bashing threads just start in the past many months and then disappear out of public view after people have been harassed. It should not even happen for people to be harassed.
When people have to constantly tear other people down, what does that say about their character?
What about starting threads to have 2 people discuss things, mention their names in the title of the thread without telling people that you are starting threads about them, using their names without their permission and trying to stir up some drama just because that person wants answers and it not going to stop the nonsense until he gets answers. Is this really normal behavior? I think that there needs some professional therapy, a padded room with some quality meds for this serious problem, this is just not normal in society to be doing this to other contractors just to stir up some un-needed drama again and again and again.
Kory
Member
Here is what is wrong with it please do not read between the lines. I am tired of all of the bull shit drama! It all boils down to hipocracy(spelling??? iDC) one person blames the other for the act of making money off of people then turns around and the light bulb goes off above their looney toones head and decides that what they thought the other person was doing was a brilliant idea to add income to their part time supposed full time business! Once again please do not try to read between the lines as there is no grey area to this post. Have a nice day. Move on. And go kick some customer ass!
danwagner
Member
Tony, I don't doubt your sincerity at all.
And I understand and follow what you're saying about the principles you cited.
Hopefully your time isn't too limited due to your stroke.
Just to give you a little insight into what makes me comment as I do: I am fully convinced that we are living in the last days of this wicked world. Matt. 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, and 2Tim. 3:1-5 are like today's newspapers. The 'last days' or 'end times' have to come to an accomplished end.
Matt. 24:13 "But he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved. 14 And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come." 1 John 2:17 Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but he that does the will of God remains forever.
The main work true Christians are given to do is preaching the good news or gospel.
And not to come across as insensitive or biased, but I refer to Galatians 6:10: "Really, then, as long as we have time favorable for it, let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to [us] in the faith."
The cold fact is that we can only do individually so much with our finite energy, resources, and time. The true God Jehovah sets the priority for us. Our consciences will guide us as to what to do with any surplus we have in any of those gifts we possess.
And I feel there is a much larger picture than who does what in the PW industry and who needs to be shut down, etc.
I don't think it's a matter of burying ones head in the sand to stand on Psalm 37:7,8 : 7 Keep silent before Jehovah
And wait longingly for him.
Do not show yourself heated up at anyone making his way successful,
At the man carrying out [his] ideas.
ה [Heʼ]
8 Let anger alone and leave rage;
Do not show yourself heated up only to do evil.
The last quote really good and sums things up.
Text me for info on Milwaukee event. 480-522-5227
TheCleaningDoc
New member
The funny thing is that most of these people on either side will NEVER compete against each other for business either. So what happens is that you end up pissing into a hurricane.
Right Larry?
Right Larry?
It much deeper than that, when your closed down because regulation won't allow it this is the problem. No one wants to believe this Happens
TheCleaningDoc
New member
Yeah the regulation thing is deeper but most of it is superficial BS. If you look deeper, it also tends to trend along political beliefs also. Or the haves and have nots.