Bio-Degardable Cleaner help

DunRite said:
Jeff/Ralph- as usual you pretty much nailed it-always spot on with your posts

Ive seen many guys try and reinvent the wheel

SH is your friend if you use it correctly

Let the chemicals work and do the cleaning!-

use the proper tips for the proper surface

If you make your house wash mix right (for me DS-2gals 12.5 SH,3 gals of water,6-8 oz of elemonator) sometimes a bit stronger, sometimes a bit weaker depending on what im cleaning and how dirty it is usually works for me

Read this board and keep it simple!
Click to expand...


^^This


I've been cleaning mostly houses for the last year, anything from vinyl siding to brick to concrete siding. I always us a similar mix. There are great products out there, but there are ways to get by for us new little guys.

So, in your bucket (gonna assume it's 5 gallons), mix (you more experienced guys feel free to correct me if I get anything wrong):

1) 1-2 gallons of SH


  • [*=1]"SH" is sodium hypochlorite, or bleach. It's typically the bleach you would use in pools. Typically your pool supply companies will sell it at 12.5% strength, hence the "12.5 SH". It's best to guy this stuff fresh, as it looses it potency fairly quickly. Sometimes, 12.5 SH is hard to find. In a pinch, I've sometimes used the 10% SH sold at Home Depot. It's in the pool supplies, sold by the gallon in white jugs sold by a company called SMART I believe. It's not quite as strong as what you would get elsewhere, and you have to be careful that you get some of the newer stock, but again, it will work. Not ideal, but still.
    [*=1]1-2 gallons - obviously the more you use the more potent it will be. You will want closer to 2 gallons per your 5 gallon bucket if it is very dirty, susceptible to mold or mildew, etc. Obviously, if you only use the 10% from HD, you will need more per mix.
    [*=1]Do not confuse "clorox" with "bleach". You can't raid the laundry room and use the Ms. laundry bleach.

2) 6-8 ounces of surfactant


  • Surfactant is any type of some that bonds with soil so that it can be washed away. In the home, these are your detergents. However, you need a detergent that is stable in bleach. Bleach with break down many surfactants, thus making them useless when mixed
  • There are many very good, professional grade surfactants. Elemonator is a very good one. This site is full of recommendations of them. If you can get them, I highly recommend it. However, speaking as a guy who's been in your shoes, ordering a supply of these products sometimes isn't feasible for us. You CAN get buy with some cheaper alternatives, however, it won't cling as well to the surface and you will end up using more in the long run, but they will work. One is simply to get a bottle of Gain dish detergent. Gain has shown to be stable in bleach/SH and will work. Again, it's not the best, but not everyone can have the best just starting off. When you can, though, you will want to move up to the professional grade surfactants. It will be cheaper in the long run, you will see better results, and it will be less effort.
  • 6-8 ounces of surfactant - do go too much more than that, or you will have problems with soap drying on the walls and windows and you'll never get them clean.

3) Fill the rest of the bucket with water



Drop your downstream siphon tube into the 5 gallon bucket, and that should be enough to do most homes. Spray it, let it dwell for 10 minutes but DO NOT LET IT DRY and then wash it off.

Downstreaming SH/bleach is safe. You are diluting it in your mix, and then your downstream is diluting it again at somewhere around a 1:7 to 1:10 ratio. Plus, all the rinsing you do after applying it is diluting even further. When all is said and done, most swimming pools will have more bleach in them than what you are using. I don't think people are worried about that concentration or we wouldn't be swimming in it or having our plants around them. If you want to be extra cautious, wet down the grass, shrubs, and plants around the walls before you apply the cleaning mix. This will protect them even further.
 
ahamer said:
Thanks again everyone, I try not to get too close to the siding but have found with my current cleaner I have to get close for heavy dirt area, that is why my orginal post about what others are using,

I see on the youtube that a lot of PW people just spray on cleaner and rinse it off and that is where I would like to get to because to tell you the truth, with my current cleaner it seems that I need to wash panel by panel and it takes me about three to four hours to wash a average sized home, tough to get two houses done in one day to earn some money.

So if there is a better mouse trap I would love to hear it, but again if I can stay away from bleech that would be great, biodegardable is a big selling point and I would like to keep that true if I can. I know what works for some may not work in others, but here in Massachusetts my time for making a living is only around 6 to 7 months so if I can get as many done as I can with not taking short cuts I and my customers will be happy.
Click to expand...

Please fill out your signature. Thanks
 
Ok everyone, I get the message, work smarter not harder, I know I have a lot to learn and I really do thank you all for your input and time, it has not fallen on deaf ears. I will learn what SH and DS and what elemonator is and where to buy it by reading this forum.

Thank you again, now I need to go do some reading and learning.
 
Dave B said:
^^This


I've been cleaning mostly houses for the last year, anything from vinyl siding to brick to concrete siding. I always us a similar mix. There are great products out there, but there are ways to get by for us new little guys.

So, in your bucket (gonna assume it's 5 gallons), mix (you more experienced guys feel free to correct me if I get anything wrong):

1) 1-2 gallons of SH


  • [*=1]"SH" is sodium hypochlorite, or bleach. It's typically the bleach you would use in pools. Typically your pool supply companies will sell it at 12.5% strength, hence the "12.5 SH". It's best to guy this stuff fresh, as it looses it potency fairly quickly. Sometimes, 12.5 SH is hard to find. In a pinch, I've sometimes used the 10% SH sold at Home Depot. It's in the pool supplies, sold by the gallon in white jugs sold by a company called SMART I believe. It's not quite as strong as what you would get elsewhere, and you have to be careful that you get some of the newer stock, but again, it will work. Not ideal, but still.
    [*=1]1-2 gallons - obviously the more you use the more potent it will be. You will want closer to 2 gallons per your 5 gallon bucket if it is very dirty, susceptible to mold or mildew, etc. Obviously, if you only use the 10% from HD, you will need more per mix.
    [*=1]Do not confuse "clorox" with "bleach". You can't raid the laundry room and use the Ms. laundry bleach.

2) 6-8 ounces of surfactant


  • Surfactant is any type of some that bonds with soil so that it can be washed away. In the home, these are your detergents. However, you need a detergent that is stable in bleach. Bleach with break down many surfactants, thus making them useless when mixed
  • There are many very good, professional grade surfactants. Elemonator is a very good one. This site is full of recommendations of them. If you can get them, I highly recommend it. However, speaking as a guy who's been in your shoes, ordering a supply of these products sometimes isn't feasible for us. You CAN get buy with some cheaper alternatives, however, it won't cling as well to the surface and you will end up using more in the long run, but they will work. One is simply to get a bottle of Gain dish detergent. Gain has shown to be stable in bleach/SH and will work. Again, it's not the best, but not everyone can have the best just starting off. When you can, though, you will want to move up to the professional grade surfactants. It will be cheaper in the long run, you will see better results, and it will be less effort.
  • 6-8 ounces of surfactant - do go too much more than that, or you will have problems with soap drying on the walls and windows and you'll never get them clean.

3) Fill the rest of the bucket with water



Drop your downstream siphon tube into the 5 gallon bucket, and that should be enough to do most homes. Spray it, let it dwell for 10 minutes but DO NOT LET IT DRY and then wash it off.

Downstreaming SH/bleach is safe. You are diluting it in your mix, and then your downstream is diluting it again at somewhere around a 1:7 to 1:10 ratio. Plus, all the rinsing you do after applying it is diluting even further. When all is said and done, most swimming pools will have more bleach in them than what you are using. I don't think people are worried about that concentration or we wouldn't be swimming in it or having our plants around them. If you want to be extra cautious, wet down the grass, shrubs, and plants around the walls before you apply the cleaning mix. This will protect them even further.
Click to expand...

Dave, THANK YOU very much for this, this helps me very much. I agree, starting out is tough so keeping it simple for now is the best way until I learn what the heck im doing.
 
814jeffw said:
SH is completely safe,..and is one of the most used products in the World. In regards to your current product,..if you have to get really close and clean every square inch with pressure,..then it's not working,..you are. If you're gonna be afraid to use the most accepted practices you may as well hang it up now.

What are you using to clean the stripes from gutters? How about rust?,..What about heavy dirt stains that can be 3-4 pieces of siding down from the soffit on homes that may have never been cleaned? Products that come in pouches and then added to water isn't gonna clean much at all in the real World of exterior cleaning,..especially if you want happy customers.

This is knowledge you need to set you on an equal playing field with those who know what they're doing,..albeit,..they are few and far between in the PW business. Which knowing the proper methods will then set you above those clowns.

In a nutshell,..Ralph pointed you to the better mousetrap already,..if you refuse SH and soap,..you're gonna be all alone on this board and may want to go to one of the "Eco" boards and listen to their blabber.

Seriously though,..after a year in business it's time you learn more about proper cleaning,..you need to spend many hours on this board reading.

People who bash bleach usually do it for a couple of reasons:

(1) They have a product they want to sell
(2) They want to use it as a selling point to gain clients,..usually in a last ditch effort to survive in the business by going "Green"
(3) They're plain stupid

Jeff
Click to expand...

Hi Jeff,

Getting to the gutters is tough, I use a ladder but in most cases I cannot reach the peaks so I bought an extension pole, man THAT takes a lot of work. For the most part I do my best. Reaching tall homes I bought the X-Jet nozzel, but my current cleaner needs direct presure to clean so I break out the pole, NOT a good time.

In regards to the "refuse SH & Soap" I am not, but I am not educated enough on what to use just what I have been told by others when I was deciding to start a PW business, so I am still learning and now that I have found mentors that are willing to help a new guy out and setting me stright, I feel I am on the correct path.

Thank you,
 
At least you seem willing to learn. and didn't come here with a big chip on your shoulder.

When I mentioned the gutters,..I was talking more about product than about reaching them. The gutters need their own cleaner to come clean as they can be,...your SH and soap won't work. Chances are,.. you will still need to brush them,..so using an extension pole and a ladder is the only way sometimes. Don't be afraid of DS'ing (Downstreaming) ,..once you cut it in the bucket to say,..50/50 with Dihydrogen Monoxide and add 6-8 OZ. of Elemonator,..and then DS it,..you will have a very mild but effective mix hitting the house.

Jeff
 
Dave B said:
^^This


I've been cleaning mostly houses for the last year, anything from vinyl siding to brick to concrete siding. I always us a similar mix. There are great products out there, but there are ways to get by for us new little guys.

So, in your bucket (gonna assume it's 5 gallons), mix (you more experienced guys feel free to correct me if I get anything wrong):

1) 1-2 gallons of SH


  • [*=1]"SH" is sodium hypochlorite, or bleach. It's typically the bleach you would use in pools. Typically your pool supply companies will sell it at 12.5% strength, hence the "12.5 SH". It's best to guy this stuff fresh, as it looses it potency fairly quickly. Sometimes, 12.5 SH is hard to find. In a pinch, I've sometimes used the 10% SH sold at Home Depot. It's in the pool supplies, sold by the gallon in white jugs sold by a company called SMART I believe. It's not quite as strong as what you would get elsewhere, and you have to be careful that you get some of the newer stock, but again, it will work. Not ideal, but still.
    [*=1]1-2 gallons - obviously the more you use the more potent it will be. You will want closer to 2 gallons per your 5 gallon bucket if it is very dirty, susceptible to mold or mildew, etc. Obviously, if you only use the 10% from HD, you will need more per mix.
    [*=1]Do not confuse "clorox" with "bleach". You can't raid the laundry room and use the Ms. laundry bleach.

2) 6-8 ounces of surfactant


  • Surfactant is any type of some that bonds with soil so that it can be washed away. In the home, these are your detergents. However, you need a detergent that is stable in bleach. Bleach with break down many surfactants, thus making them useless when mixed
  • There are many very good, professional grade surfactants. Elemonator is a very good one. This site is full of recommendations of them. If you can get them, I highly recommend it. However, speaking as a guy who's been in your shoes, ordering a supply of these products sometimes isn't feasible for us. You CAN get buy with some cheaper alternatives, however, it won't cling as well to the surface and you will end up using more in the long run, but they will work. One is simply to get a bottle of Gain dish detergent. Gain has shown to be stable in bleach/SH and will work. Again, it's not the best, but not everyone can have the best just starting off. When you can, though, you will want to move up to the professional grade surfactants. It will be cheaper in the long run, you will see better results, and it will be less effort.
  • 6-8 ounces of surfactant - do go too much more than that, or you will have problems with soap drying on the walls and windows and you'll never get them clean.

3) Fill the rest of the bucket with water



Drop your downstream siphon tube into the 5 gallon bucket, and that should be enough to do most homes. Spray it, let it dwell for 10 minutes but DO NOT LET IT DRY and then wash it off.

Downstreaming SH/bleach is safe. You are diluting it in your mix, and then your downstream is diluting it again at somewhere around a 1:7 to 1:10 ratio. Plus, all the rinsing you do after applying it is diluting even further. When all is said and done, most swimming pools will have more bleach in them than what you are using. I don't think people are worried about that concentration or we wouldn't be swimming in it or having our plants around them. If you want to be extra cautious, wet down the grass, shrubs, and plants around the walls before you apply the cleaning mix. This will protect them even further.
Click to expand...

Couple little things ive learned along the way that im sure most guys whov'e washed a few houses are doing:

Prewet the windows first before hitting that side of the house with your wash mix- makes rinsing lot easier and less likely to have streaking marks when it drys

Prewet shrubs and bushes that are close to the house before soaping and after rinsing- The chances im going to affect these shrubs with my HW mix is minimum but here in NJ alot of shrubs and expensive Japanese bushes are common and sit right up on the house-better safe than sorry

Start your soaping from the bottom and work your way up in a nice controlled manner-again i have found doing the opposite requires a lot more rinsing later

If you make these things a habit along with everyone else is saying here should go along way

Im sure other guys have their own checklist as well
 
Yes Jeff, I want to learn, I need to earn a living and by providing shotty work is not how I like to do things, my rep is on the line and if I dont provide good work, clients will stop calling. I am already reading some of the other fourm sections and for the short time I have been on this site, I have learned very valuable info.

Yeah not a big fan of that pole if you have not already guessed, but if I have to brush the gutters than I will have to but I will try DS'ing first.

Now I have to learn where to purchase all of these cleaning solutions, if anyone wants to recomend any place feel free to touch base off line, (not sure if I am aloud to ask that question or not).
Thanks again
 
DunRite said:
Couple little things ive learned along the way that im sure most guys whov'e washed a few houses are doing:

Prewet the windows first before hitting that side of the house with your wash mix- makes rinsing lot easier and less likely to have streaking marks when it drys

Prewet shrubs and bushes that are close to the house before soaping and after rinsing- The chances im going to affect these shrubs with my HW mix is minimum but here in NJ alot of shrubs and expensive Japanese bushes are common and sit right up on the house-better safe than sorry

Start your soaping from the bottom and work your way up in a nice controlled manner-again i have found doing the opposite requires a lot more rinsing later

If you make these things a habit along with everyone else is saying here should go along way

Im sure other guys have their own checklist as well
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike, very good to know.
 
I use Purple Power on the gutters,..some guys us F-13 sold at PressureTek.com,..a handful of choices with gutter cleaning. DS'ing is a waste of time to get them clean,..you will only get them cleanER,...temperature plays a big factor in gutter cleaning as well,..doable in 50 and Sunny,..below that,..better be really Sunny and dwell goes up. The warmer the better when it comes to gutters. The brush is just part of the work. The gutter cleaner will need to be applied by a pump sprayer or bucket dipped,..DS'ing will not work...I prefer and use pump sprayers for gutters.

Jeff
 
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