Any Chemist Out There

Lightning Gene

Lightning Gene

Active member
Bought some stuff today to make my own 12.5 today.Just wana know how safe it will be to mix with my house wash.1 tablespoon makes 15% clorine in a 25 gallon tank.......sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione dihydrate......Anyone know anything about this chemical granules? Will it be safe to mix with other soap....can't buy 12.5 anywhere close by...Thx Gene
 
hey gene

from my experience with sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione dihydrate (Dichlor) in my swimming pool service business it is a good sanitizer.

However, there are a few considerations when comparing to use of 12.5% in housewash.

when chlorine, in any form, is mixed with water it forms hypochlorous acid (HOCl) which kills organic compounds and hypochlorite ions (OCl) ions, a weaker form of chlorine.

Before the pros and cons are looked at, we need to have a side by side comparison of Sodium Hypochlorite and Dichlor:

.............................................Sodium Hypochlorite______Dichlor

pH.............................................13+__________________6.8
Available Chlorine.........................12.5%________________60%
Common Form..............................Liquid________________Dry Granular
Stability in Water..........................Unstable______________Very Stable

In terms of pH, Dichlor is slightly acidic - but I imagine not enough to be of great concern when mixing with your housewash, but I'd still be cautious as with all chemicals (I am not qualified to tell you one way or another!!)

The 'triazinetrione' is basically a fancy name for a stabilizing agent or cyanuric acid which extends the life of chlorine... when in water the concentration of cyanuric acid does not decrease or decompose - the only way to reduce it is by dilution. ---- ultimately I do not believe that this would affect the wash process. It may keep the potency of your housewash mix stronger for longer, as opposed to the rapid break down of Sodium Hypochlorite.

In my experience Dichlor is more expensive, but it is more effective in swimming pool applications... how does it relate to PW industry...

Side by side you could say that Dichlor has no by-products, it is more stable, granular is easier to handle and transport, it's pH allows for a more effective cleaning compound...

However, mixing to correct strength may be more difficult?!?! If you have a good Sodium Hypochlorite supplier, you know what you are getting and how to cut it to get the percentage you need (smaller numbers :D !!)

I have a stock of both Dichlor and Trichlor - haven't tried or thought about using them. Don't use Calcium hypochlorite as it leaves residue!!!! Problem with Trichlor is that it is slow to dissolve, very acidic (3.0, so don't mix with alkaline detergents!), is 90% available chlorine and is expensive!!

Gene, sorry if this turned out to be a 'preach' by Steven.... hope it helps a bit. :)
 
Steven Button said:
hey gene

from my experience with sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione dihydrate (Dichlor) in my swimming pool service business it is a good sanitizer.

However, there are a few considerations when comparing to use of 12.5% in housewash.

when chlorine, in any form, is mixed with water it forms hypochlorous acid (HOCl) which kills organic compounds and hypochlorite ions (OCl) ions, a weaker form of chlorine.

Before the pros and cons are looked at, we need to have a side by side comparison of Sodium Hypochlorite and Dichlor:

.............................................Sodium Hypochlorite______Dichlor

pH.............................................13+__________________6.8
Available Chlorine.........................12.5%________________60%
Common Form..............................Liquid________________Dry Granular
Stability in Water..........................Unstable______________Very Stable

In terms of pH, Dichlor is slightly acidic - but I imagine not enough to be of great concern when mixing with your housewash, but I'd still be cautious as with all chemicals (I am not qualified to tell you one way or another!!)

The 'triazinetrione' is basically a fancy name for a stabilizing agent or cyanuric acid which extends the life of chlorine... when in water the concentration of cyanuric acid does not decrease or decompose - the only way to reduce it is by dilution. ---- ultimately I do not believe that this would affect the wash process. It may keep the potency of your housewash mix stronger for longer, as opposed to the rapid break down of Sodium Hypochlorite.

In my experience Dichlor is more expensive, but it is more effective in swimming pool applications... how does it relate to PW industry...

Side by side you could say that Dichlor has no by-products, it is more stable, granular is easier to handle and transport, it's pH allows for a more effective cleaning compound...

However, mixing to correct strength may be more difficult?!?! If you have a good Sodium Hypochlorite supplier, you know what you are getting and how to cut it to get the percentage you need (smaller numbers :D !!)

I have a stock of both Dichlor and Trichlor - haven't tried or thought about using them. Don't use Calcium hypochlorite as it leaves residue!!!! Problem with Trichlor is that it is slow to dissolve, very acidic (3.0, so don't mix with alkaline detergents!), is 90% available chlorine and is expensive!!

Gene, sorry if this turned out to be a 'preach' by Steven.... hope it helps a bit. :)
Click to expand...

So what you are saying is that as long as I mix it in water at the correct measurement to achive 12.5 % is should be fine to use and then diluting it thru my X-Jet at 4 to 1 It should work just fine....This stuff takes a tablespoon to make 25 gallons of 12.5......2lb tub.....9.95 makes thousands of gallons......hmmmmm
 
I'm with Russ, it isn't effective.

Let us know how your experiment works out, maybe we're wrong.
 
I would be suprised if it worked applying it with a chem pump, much less with an X Jet.
Calcium Hypo and Dichlor are sanitizers, not cleaners.
Sodium Hypo has a unique chemical reaction that cleans, the rest disinfect.

Now, IF ya wanna try something, try hydrogen peroxide ?
But be careful, 40 percent Hydrogen Peroxide is NASTY stuff, and can burst into flames on your trailer.

A chemist once told me you need 18 percent solution of it to water to clean like sodium hypo.

Gene, I have LOTS of tricks, why dont you call me, I have an idea for you.
 
gene, I cannot vouch for how effective it may or may not be as a cleaner - russ, newheights and chris have more experience with cleaning processes.

However, I don't think the chemistry can be disputed... Any form of chlorine, including sodium hypochlorite, when added to water forms hypochlorous acid and hypochlorite ions - the former being more effective sanitizer (cleaner??).

I am in complete agreement about cal hypo not being suitable - it leaves a lot of residue when it is dissolved in water.

Chris, can you explain more about the unique chemical reaction? I would like to understand this side more!! :)

I might see if I can test diclor and SH, has it already been done? Anyone posted results?
 
Gene don't bother with it.

For the CHL to equal di-chlor it is 1 gallon CHL to 1 lb of Di-chlor.

That will get very expensive. We ran pool routes with Di-Chlor, Tri-Chlor and just plain CHL.

Di-Chlor was good because of the fast dissolve and the almost nuetral pH with a stabilizer in it. Keep in mind that you'd be spraying stabilizer on the house (acid) and in the plant beds. I don't know what kind of effect that would have.

Tri-Chlor is also stabililzed Chlorine 99% in most cases. Don't get it on you or in your eyes. As far as plants here, same as above.

That leaves SH. hmm. :)
 
Guess I will mix up some tomorrow with my emulcifier plus and dawn and back away quickly......Then try some on a shed out back and grass on fence line......
 
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