Nozzle Trivia

All variables constant, switching 15 deg to 25 deg nozzles reduces impact by almost?

  • 0%

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 10%

    Votes: 5 13.2%
  • 25%

    Votes: 12 31.6%
  • 40%

    Votes: 12 31.6%
  • 50%

    Votes: 4 10.5%
  • 60%

    Votes: 5 13.2%

  • Total voters
    38

810f250

Griffs Services PowerWash
Until I get my new trailer later this year or next year I will just keep on with the loss of psi with the 3/8" hose but with the new trailer I will be running 1/2" hose for the 8gpm machine so less loss of psi.

A lot of guys hate using the 1/2" hose because it is a little heavier and stiffer than the 3/8" hose but when doing a lot of flatwork, the overall benefits are worth the hassle.

If you are using very hot water, I would make sure that your hose is rated for the temps you will be running.

I agree, this is a very good thread.

Care to try 5/8 hose Chris?

I think that size hose is very versatile, I wonder how much more it cost than 1/2"

Be the first on PWI to run it Chris
 

810f250

Griffs Services PowerWash
Something else to consider is your hose reels. If you are not using the Super Swivel, look inside the opening where the water comes out into the hose on the reel and see how small that opening is.

The immitation Rapid Reel hose reel (aka general hose reel) has a very tiny hole that will restrict your flow.

When I changed out hose reels earlier this year I put on a Hannay Reel that looks like it has a Super Swivel on there and I looked at the passage in the swivel and it is large, like about 1/2" since the hose reel is 1/2" so no restrictions there.

That was on my water supply hose reel to the tank. Now the tank seems to fill about twice as fast as before! The opening in the swivel is the big difference since I am using the same supply hose but added another 125' to the 100' that was on the old reel so the water tank fills about twice as fast with more hose because of that larger opening in the swivel.

Switch out the swivels to the Super Swivel brand and look inside them, the opening is a lot larger so if you change out to 1/2" hose, get the Super Swivel so that cheap brass swivel does not slow you down.

Good point Chris.
 

tomtucson

New member
Jim, I recently went to 1/2" hose and it's a difference you can feel! It's the kind of thing where you can't go back. I definitely got an increase in the rinsing speed. I usually run 100' and less often add a second 100'.
 

810f250

Griffs Services PowerWash
So much for my English. lol

What effect does switching from 2 arm to 3 arm have on impact from each nozzle? ....; if both the sets of nozzles in the 2 arm and 3 arm bars are the same angle.

Example: For a pressure washer pump like General's TSF2021 8 gpm at 3600 psi.

Running a Surface cleaner with 2 nozzles at 15 degrees in the 2 arm

or Running a surface cleaner with 3 nozzles at 15 degrees in the 3 arm

Which has a potential better cleaning capacity? (Greater Impact)



Answer 2 arm.
Why....Flow is a direct function of Impact.



Why do you think, most are impressed when they move from 4 gallon per minute (gpm) 3500 psi machines to industry standard 5.6 gallon per minute 3500psi machines?


Impact increases by?


Answer: An increase of "only" 1.6 gallons translates to a 40% increase in Impact Force.


Side note: If you went from 4 gpm @ 3500psi to 4 gpm @ 5000 psi

Impact is only increased by about 20%


Stainless Steels Nozzles Anyone?

About how much more resistant to wear is a hardened stainless steel nozzle to a regular stainless steel nozzle.

About 2 to 2.5 times more resistant to wear.
 

tomtucson

New member
On the supply side I get way more water through a large diaphragm type float than the other kind. I would definitely oversize the swivel like Chris was talking about, and a oversize filter if it's on the supply line, all those things add up when you're trying to get every drop you can. I dont even have a swivel for that reason, just a 1" cam fitting
 

tomtucson

New member
Nigel, the number of bars is where the figures go out the window and field testing is required. For one thing there is another factor in the 'cleaning power equation' for a spinning cleaner, 'sprays per minute'. At a given rpm you're spraying over each spot more times. I find this more important for me. In any case I see cement that seems 'worn' from too much impact. If a surface cleaner can easily put a ring in the concrete when it is stopped, I think its probably wearing the finish even when it's moving.
 

810f250

Griffs Services PowerWash
Nigel, the number of bars is where the figures go out the window and field testing is required. For one thing there is another factor in the 'cleaning power equation' for a spinning cleaner, 'sprays per minute'. At a given rpm you're spraying over each spot more times. I find this more important for me. In any case I see cement that seems 'worn' from too much impact. If a surface cleaner can easily put a ring in the concrete when it is stopped, I think its probably wearing the finish even when it's moving.

I see what you are saying Tom, and maybe I could have defined the parameters better, but even so instantaneous impact at each nozzle is increase by about (ready for this) 50% in a 2 arm with the same supplied flow and pressure for both surface cleaners as compared to a 3 arm with accurately sized nozzles.
 

tomtucson

New member
There's another factor, speed at which the nozzle is traveling. That is working inversely to the 'sprays per minute' factor.
 

Lou hoods&more

New member
I found this avatar of Nigel on the mad scientist board. He's the administrator there.

<a href="http://s468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/sonitx/?action=view&current=MAD.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr46/sonitx/MAD.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Watch out next he'll come out with a larger version of...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rUSTXUis_ys&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rUSTXUis_ys&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
 

tomtucson

New member
This is from an old post by 'Michael' who seemed to know a lot

NEVER fall for Cleaning Units or Cleaning Performance numbers derived from GPM x PSI. This is not an accurate formula for comparison; this however is:

Reaction Force (in Pounds) = [GPM x (Square root of PSI)] / 18.92.

Therefore using a 2 GPM @ 1000 PSI unit as the start;

RF is (2 x 31.62) / 18.92 = 3.34#.

Double the flow to 4 GPM (4 x 31.62) / 18.92 = 6.69#.
Double the pressure but keep the flow (2 x 44.72) / 18.92 = 4.73#
Quadruple the pressure but keep the flow (2 x 63.25) / 18.92 = 6.69#

As I have said before FLOW IS OF MORE VALUE THAN PRESSURE, now you know why.

100,000 BTU will give a 140 degree F (60 C) heat rise per gallon of water. This is a Rule of Thumb as efficiencies of coils vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.

Forgot about water; it weighs 1 kilogram/ litre or 10 pounds/ Imperial gallon or 8.35 pounds/ US gallon.

The above information must be credited to Cat Pumps, Giant Pumps, Beckett Burners and my science teachers.

Hope this helps? Cheers.
 

810f250

Griffs Services PowerWash
There's another factor, speed at which the nozzle is traveling. That is working inversely to the 'sprays per minute' factor.

This is what I was trying to convey when I say instantaneous impact.

At any one particular freeze framed moment (when the 2 arm and the 3 arm is stopped but spraying) and your time is very very very very small.

This is the impact I refer to, and is measured at that moment.

The 2 arm would be higher than the 3 arm at each nozzle.


But I do get what you are saying.
 

810f250

Griffs Services PowerWash
This is from an old post by 'Michael' who seemed to know a lot

NEVER fall for Cleaning Units or Cleaning Performance numbers derived from GPM x PSI. This is not an accurate formula for comparison; this however is:

Reaction Force (in Pounds) = [GPM x (Square root of PSI)] / 18.92.

Therefore using a 2 GPM @ 1000 PSI unit as the start;

RF is (2 x 31.62) / 18.92 = 3.34#.

Double the flow to 4 GPM (4 x 31.62) / 18.92 = 6.69#.
Double the pressure but keep the flow (2 x 44.72) / 18.92 = 4.73#
Quadruple the pressure but keep the flow (2 x 63.25) / 18.92 = 6.69#

As I have said before FLOW IS OF MORE VALUE THAN PRESSURE, now you know why.

100,000 BTU will give a 140 degree F (60 C) heat rise per gallon of water. This is a Rule of Thumb as efficiencies of coils vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.

Forgot about water; it weighs 1 kilogram/ litre or 10 pounds/ Imperial gallon or 8.35 pounds/ US gallon.

The above information must be credited to Cat Pumps, Giant Pumps, Beckett Burners and my science teachers.

Hope this helps? Cheers.


There it is, the formula for Impact.

Tom you got it.

I = K x GPM x square root of psi,

where K is a constant

this is why flow is KING.

(Flow could also be a pain in the ....... when you have to reclaim)
 

810f250

Griffs Services PowerWash
Now just for a few more members to answer the pole,... opps poll question. 24 votes is not much.
 

Great chart Tom....

If you had a 9 GPM machine at 200 ft with a 3/8 line, you pressure loss would be almost 800 PSI and thats providing the hose is straight and level.

If you had 9 GPM at 200 ft with a 1/2 inch line, Your pressure drop would be 160 psi.

This also would be less stress on your pumps requiring less maintenance issues.

Great Info Tom !!!

Funny, where did I hear this before? :neo:
 

Christopher

Moderator
Care to try 5/8 hose Chris?

I think that size hose is very versatile, I wonder how much more it cost than 1/2"

Be the first on PWI to run it Chris


I think that 1/2" would probably be good for up to maybe 15 or 20 gpm, so I think when things are changed around then probably just stick with the 1/2" hose and see how many gpm's I can push through it. hahahahaha
 

Christopher

Moderator
I had voted the 40%, cool! hahahahaha

I would like to see which brand of swivel spins faster when using a 5.5gpm machine with like 3000psi.

I wonder how we could do that?

I could test the 2 bar Classic 19", the 2 bar 24" Steel Eagle, the 3 bar 24" Stainless Steel Whirl A Way, and the 2 bar Big Guy.

Just would like to know how to test it without worrying about equipment getting wet and damaged.
 
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