Getting Pavers ready for sealing

Chazz

Chazz

New member
I had a customer who had lots of weeds and green moss growing in between his Pavers. He asked me to remove the weeds and dirt in between the Pavers so he could seal it. I hit the Pavers with my surface cleaner and hot waterAnd I had a helper follow me up with a tight stream and laser beam in between the Pavers of the weeds that the surface cleaner did not get out. There was a ton of mud as you could imagine and this was very time consuming but we did it, no weeds were left and the dirt was removed so sand could be placed.The problem was I couldn't get rid of the mud, I would rinse and the mud would sit back down in spotsSo we finished and I got paid by the home owners friend ( he was not there ) I got a call that night saying he was very disappointed that the Pavers were dirty. I told him I went over them a few times with my surface cleaner and that they are clean but mud kept sitting back down and that there was So Much mud that we did get rid of into the drain. What would you guys do? Go back and rinse again? Wait till the mud dries and sweep it in the cracksIt has to be clean enough to seal. I have another job coming up that the lady has lots of weeds and she has No draining system in her yard so I don't even know if I want the job now.
 
Off the top of my head I would use a back pack blower to blow as much as possible AFTER it has dried. Then rinse again lightly. Then explain to the customer that she may need to rinse again a few times, in sections, using as little water as possible with her garden hose. Very tough to prevent this when the dirt keeps coming up from the ground. Just explain the basics of water and dirt and what happens when the two mix. Then, I would advise to never partner with a homeowner again on a DYI project like this. Hope that helps. Let me know how it goes.
 
Yeah Doug, I tried to explain but this guy was pissed and was saying I got my money and he's screwed.He has no idea how hard we worked for him that day, we were full of mud, my surface cleaner got clogged and stoppedWorking so the cement sidewalk was done by wand. He was mad when I said it was just surface dirt and it just neededLight hosing. I told him I would come back in a few days to either brush it or rinse it. I wanted to go back and give him his money but my wife told me to calm down, I worked hard for that money, I did what he asked of me and more.Oh well I was batting a thousand but there is always going to be someone not happy
 
Those are tough jobs. You'll probably never get it cleaned because the base probably isnt right. Sounds like it's sitting right on dirt, hence all the weeds.
 
do you guys resand when you're done with pavers? what do you charge for that? i did a job and blasted all the sand out (i told the cust that it would happen ahead of time so there werent any issues). when i was done she asked me if i could do resand for her, but i have no idea how much to charge. and how do you go about it? just sweep it in or does it have to be compacted?
 
Tim & Chazz, I called both you guys this am. I'm happy to help re: pavers. For those of you who aren't strictly pressurewashing contractors, like me, pavers are a nice margin business to get into. In my humble opinion paver sealant isn't worth a lick, but properly-applied polymeric sand will fix most if not all problems with ants, weeds & moss, in addition to greatly improving the look of virtually any paver surface.

Do your research and/or feel free to pm me.
 
polimeric sand is not made for re-sanding after cleaning It is made for new thick paver installations and if you read the labels, you need at least an inch in depth for it to set properly. If you cant get the dirt out how will you fill it deep enough with the sand? There are other issues with polymeric. Such as haze, when the polymers rises to the surface and sets on the pavers.
My neighbor put polymeric sand in his new driveway. Used Techniseal (a very good brand by the way,) and his driveway is full of weeds. I watched him do it. followed the directions exactly. It isnt all its cracked up to be and I see the problems on a regular basis since it has become popular, (and now even sold at Lowes.)
 
Carlos, I did not notice any sand while cleaning the Pavers
In fact all of the Pavers out here in my part of N.Y. All look the same
Weeds growing in between the Pavers dirt and no signs of sand.
They get the Pavers and never maintain them
 
Mr. Chapman,

A gentle reminder that the motto here is "Changing the Industry Through Education". Educate us.

Your post was insightful, recommending What Not to do. How about some suggestions recommending What to do?

If this is a re-sand, and poly isn't recommended, do we simply tell customers that "its gonna wash out, sorry." I hired Russ (?) out of Charleston to "seal" my friend's pool deck. Met him at pwi Myrtle Beach. I think it was Paver Seal. He charged $1100 and the following year the same problems occurred. Russ is a gentleman, but I could have done the same job and achieved the same results for a fraction of the cost. The sealants on the market won't keep an oil stain from penetrating the paver. Most people equate "seal" with keeping ants, moss, etc., out of the joints, and Paver Seal certainly didn't achieve that result.

Situation: thin pavers, small seams, laid on dirt/gravel, maybe graded/pitched properly maybe not.

Situation: thick pavers, wide seams, laid on concrete, graded/pitched properly.

Very few of the "best" paver installers/companies around here use anything other than playground sand on five-figure driveway installs. It is a joke, but great opportunity for guys like me to sell a job.

Look forward to your reply, we have three re-sands pending, just waiting out the rain.
 
Maybe im mistaken but i think in the seal and lock class they recommended the playground sand. wil have to check again the guide they gave us.
 
carolinawildcat said:
Mr. Chapman,

A gentle reminder that the motto here is "Changing the Industry Through Education". Educate us.

Your post was insightful, recommending What Not to do. How about some suggestions recommending What to do?

If this is a re-sand, and poly isn't recommended, do we simply tell customers that "its gonna wash out, sorry." I hired Russ (?) out of Charleston to "seal" my friend's pool deck. Met him at pwi Myrtle Beach. I think it was Paver Seal. He charged $1100 and the following year the same problems occurred. Russ is a gentleman, but I could have done the same job and achieved the same results for a fraction of the cost. The sealants on the market won't keep an oil stain from penetrating the paver. Most people equate "seal" with keeping ants, moss, etc., out of the joints, and Paver Seal certainly didn't achieve that result.

Situation: thin pavers, small seams, laid on dirt/gravel, maybe graded/pitched properly maybe not.

Situation: thick pavers, wide seams, laid on concrete, graded/pitched properly.

Very few of the "best" paver installers/companies around here use anything other than playground sand on five-figure driveway installs. It is a joke, but great opportunity for guys like me to sell a job.

Look forward to your reply, we have three re-sands pending, just waiting out the rain.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I usually am here while taking a break. Ill respond later on with a better educating post.
 
this is a difficult problem and no easy way to do those. Paver joints with out some form of stabilized sand, whether through polymeric or sealing, will tend to loose their sand over time and fill with dirt. Algae and moss, weeds will grow and will fill the joints. Dirt and algae must be removed prior to sanding and sealing. Not an easy thing to do if the drainage is bad. but necessary. A shop vac in the low areas will work to remove the excess water and continued rinsing will remove the dirt.
Weeds will send roots under the pavers into the sand, even with thin overlays.
If the pavers have weeds and you can pull the weed out and the root, then you can also blast them out with a pressure washer before re-sanding. If not, they must have a weed killer applied at least twice prior to the cleaning or they will just grow back.

Now, if your just doing a cleaning job, is it the surface of the pavers that the customer wants clean? if so, your roof cleaning mix will work wonders followed by a light rinse. It depends on what the customer wants and what is promised. What Charles said was the he worked hard for his money. I dont doubt that at all. Ive done plenty of those that take so much prep time as to make the job marginally profitable. But the customers expectations were not met, obviously.
Correct me if I'm wrong Charles, but didn't you recently start doing paver sealing? There is a learning curve as with anything else and here is one to learn from. Most people are under the impression that pavers are maintenance free, thanks to paver contractors not telling them the pros and cons. So, if they are never cleaned and sealed and you get them after 5-10 years, they will be a mess, regardless of whether it was a good installation or not.

I have been sealing for about 5 years now and know what to cover during the sales process and how to price accordingly. How many of them actually remember long term? Who knows, but I don't get call backs because their expectations that I set are met when the job is finished.
 
my two cents

carolinawildcat said:
Mr. Chapman,

A gentle reminder that the motto here is "Changing the Industry Through Education". Educate us.

Your post was insightful, recommending What Not to do. How about some suggestions recommending What to do?

If this is a re-sand, and poly isn't recommended, do we simply tell customers that "its gonna wash out, sorry." Yes, actually. Or seal it with a sand stabilizing sealer. I use Seal N Lock, There are other sealers out there that do the same, but I have used several and have not had the desired results as with SnL.
I hired Russ (?) out of Charleston to "seal" my friend's pool deck. Met him at pwi Myrtle Beach. I think it was Paver Seal. He charged $1100 and the following year the same problems occurred. Russ is a gentleman, but I could have done the same job and achieved the same results for a fraction of the cost. The sealants on the market won't keep an oil stain from penetrating the paver. Most people equate "seal" with keeping ants, moss, etc., out of the joints, and Paver Seal certainly didn't achieve that result I don't know which Russ you are talking about, but the year later results could be due to many factors. (see my previous rambling post.)
No water based sealer will keep oil from penetrating if left long enough. If oil is the issue, then solvent acrylics will work better, but if left for too long with out cleaning, Oil will penetrate those also. Even after sealing, pavers are not maintenance free!

Situation: thin pavers, small seams, laid on dirt/gravel, maybe graded/pitched properly maybe not. If thin pavers were laid on dirt or gravel, I would not take the job. Your asking for sealer failure! Thin pavers are meant for overlay on concrete, with a layer of sand underneath. I don't know the standard exactly, but I think a minimum of 1/4 inch. I(Im used to seeing a light dusting of sand just to make it look like the installers were following procedures.) Thin seams are tough in any situation. Small sand particles can go in, but the small sand particles don't stabilize well. Courser sand is better and SealNLock recommends nothing smaller than 75 microns. Course, angular sand is called for. Yeah, I know, its almost impossible to find course sand in my area and yours too, but I've still had success with the fine sand. But nothing works 100% in every situation. you work with what you can get.

Situation: thick pavers, wide seams, laid on concrete, graded/pitched properly. Why would thick pavers be laid on concrete? If that's the case though, wide joints make sanding a breeze, except it washes out easier if your wet sanding so you have to use more care. I think that would be an Ideal situation for polymeric, because it would be easier to remove it deep enough.

Very few of the "best" paver installers/companies around here use anything other than playground sand on five-figure driveway installs. It is a joke, but great opportunity for guys like me to sell a job. If you are having success with what your doing, fantastic! You have past the learning curve and are enjoying the fruits of your learning. But when sealing pavers, it is easier to clean, sand (with what ever is available) and use a good sealer. Again, Seal n Lock is my choice. My answer before was that polymeric is not made for re-sanding. Doesn't mean it can't be used, just not what its designed for.
Slightly unrelated story: I went to an estimate yesterday for very light colored travertine paver pool deck. The customer had bought polymeric from Home depot to resand. It was bright orange! and he filled every hole and void with it. but it was already cracking and falling out of the joints. It has become popular and we will see more and more of it.

Look forward to your reply, we have three re-sands pending, just waiting out the rain.
Click to expand...

this is my two cents, take it for that value. I am by no means an expert, but I have some small experience that I hope helps. I am happy to take calls to answer any questions that anyone trying to do pavers may have.
 
No Jon I have not started sealing yet. I have been asked to seal Pavers but I want to take a seal n lock course
first before I attempt this area. I know I could make very god money selling after washing but I want to be educated first.
 
Thanks for the info. As my grandmother used to say, "There's more than one way to skin a cat." Different methods and ideas are always appreciated. Above all else, your advice that we manage expectations is perhaps the most important.
 
This is good a good thread. I took the seal lock class a few years ago. I clean a good deal stone . The issue here in the north east is the pavers need to much work to correct. I just clean them unless they are a year or two old.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top