Wrapi, for profit or not?

Ron Musgraves

Ron Musgraves

Exterior Restoration Specialist
Staff member
A few days back i got into a converstaion with another PW and we started talking about Wrapi.

Russel C. and i had been talking about organization when we had our first round table many years back. We had anilized the down falls of others org. over the last ten years.


We had drawn a conclusion that most of these orgs had no real benifits and seemed to be marketing machines for a few select individual.

No one on the Board unless they where in selling or products had no real reason to be there.

Volinteers dont really have much interest to achive and long term happenings.


Bingo, the problem in a nut shell,,, No real interest. Keep in mind if we wanted to donate money to a charity we could select a better way to donate the money.

The inseption of a successful org was no longer a dream but a idea locked in someones head.

four or five years later now on paper and detailed the out looks like a great idea. Inovative and a well thought and a plan for the future.


I have not joined Wrapi and may never. I do think if your a wood person i think you shouldnt count them out. I think if you do your just being a narrow minded individual. I think Ideas start as dreams. Dreams to make things better and make more money.


I talk about profit and Non-profit.

This a staus that a company runs under guidelines for tax benifits and other selters and beni's. Anyone who thinks people get involved in a NON-profit doenst want to make profit are just alittle stupid.

Sorry for being so straight forward about this. I have talked with Russ for many years and one of the things i like about Wrapi is that its going to make dollars. The members are supposed to make dollars. This is what a NON-profit organization does. (Wrapi is not a charity)


This is the strong point of Wrapi, the comitment to Members to put dollars in there pocket.

If little league didnt make money they would not be around. Boy & girls, WMCA and so on and so On.


Wrapi and its founders are out to put togther a program that will make all who join Money.

Thats what a organization should focus on. Thru education and marketing and training method they will teach vetrans and new bees how to be successful.


I believe that we all know that the PWNA is currently making radicle changes to run and make more money. the need for and organization to make money to supprt its members is a definite. If this doesnt happen then no one will gain. certanly not the industry or members.


Folks stop being so silly, all involved should want to make money and want all whom join to make money. Is a Wrapi going to be porfitable for its members? I hope or they wont be around long.

is its a NON-profit ORG? (YES) are they going to make money? (I HOPE SO)
 
Well written and well said Ron.

I too have spoken with Russell in weeks past about WRAPI and I agree with you... The purpose as it should be is to put money in thier members pockets.

I see one hurdle potentially arising in the future for all of these org's. It is simply called "market share" . Questions remain to be answered. The one thst comes to mind is this. Will the majority of contract cleaners pay dues to multiple trade organizations or will they pay dues to the one that offers the best package?

You are also correct on the PWNA changes... I think they are good. It is nice to hear what goes on at BOD meetings. Whether it was a "cause and effect" result of the formation of 2 new orgs or just coincidential in timing, the bottom line is that these new changes are more appealing to some contractors, old and new.

But the question still remains, Will the majority of the contractors pay dues to multiple organizations? Sure, there will be 25 or 50 that will jump at the opportunity (some may do it prematurely without thinking the decision through) others will do it to get in early and make it work for them with marketing and so forth.

All not for proft organizations need to make money.... for themselves and thier members. Does the PWNA org do this? Putting thier logo and thier mission statement and wood certification at the bottom of my bids and on my website probably helps with adding business credibility, helps with closeing the deal and yes, that works to make me money.

Will the WRAPI logo and mission in the same location on my quotes do the same as PWNA... I dare say.... yes it will. But the question remains.... Does one need to pay for a second logo and is thier room for it?


I think that WRAPI and UAMCC will benifit the profession. I am not sure that the majority of contractors will pay dues to multiple professional orgs. It comes down to how much of a chunk one will get of the market share available.

Just look at all of the BBS.... If all of them decided to charge a annual membership fee starting tomorrow, Contractors will look for the best bang for the buck.

Ron you hit it on the head.... These orgs need to make money for the contractors... The ones that do it best will flourish and grow.
 
Matthew

I do understand your main point that contractors should be mindful of their investments. I agree that as a small business owner you need to make sure that every dollar you spend is working as hard as you do for your business.

Where our opinions differ is in the comparison of the organizations and what they offer members. It is true that each organization was created to bring benefit to the contractor, in that respect they are the same. If however, you look at each organization as unique, you will see there is very little overlap. For instance consider the following.

The UAMCC is primarily a trade organization. They bring their benefit to members by coordinating trade shows. Contractors can attend one show and see what new innovations are offered by all of the participating manufacturers and distributors for the covered industries. Contractors can attend and get new ideas for add-on business and even elect for training or instructional seminars. The UAMCC unites industries that are similar and often cross compatible to bring the strengths of many to one central point for networking and growth.

The PWNA also has trade shows with a main focus on the power washing industry. They are moving their focus toward becoming an educational organization. The PWNA lists among other member benefits: use of logo, subscription to newsletter, member only BBS as well as discounts with participating vendors.

The WRAPI organization is very specific. WRAPI is an educational organization with a strong focus on member benefits and support. Because the focus is specialized, WRAPI is able to provide excellent resources and small business assistance to it's contractor members. WRAPI does not host any trade shows but rather allows those manufacturers and distributors who profit from our members to participate by sponsoring the WRAPI benefit programs. WRAPI does offer both training and assistance in securing job leads and work contracts. In addition members receive many of the more traditional benefits such as news letters, discounts and free marketing materials to promote your business.

It's not so much a matter of will contractors join all three so it is not really about market share. It is about a contractor looking at each organization for what it is. Each organization has something different to offer. Some will be drawn to join all three because all three will return a benefit that outweighs the cost. Others may just join one or two. At the end of the day I think it will be less about market share and more about return on investment.

The thing about an entrepreneursn as both you and Ron pointed out, they are pretty keen. Very few have to be led. Successful entrepreneurs continually put their energy to things that return a benefit to their company. When they find something that works, it is natural for them to stick with it.

Best of Luck

Russell Cissell
 
Russell Cissell said:
Matthew

I do understand your main point that contractors should be mindful of their investments. I agree that as a small business owner you need to make sure that every dollar you spend is working as hard as you do for your business.

Where our opinions differ is in the comparison of the organizations and what they offer members. It is true that each organization was created to bring benefit to the contractor, in that respect they are the same. If however, you look at each organization as unique, you will see there is very little overlap. For instance consider the following.

The UAMCC is primarily a trade organization. They bring their benefit to members by coordinating trade shows. Contractors can attend one show and see what new innovations are offered by all of the participating manufacturers and distributors for the covered industries. Contractors can attend and get new ideas for add-on business and even elect for training or instructional seminars. The UAMCC unites industries that are similar and often cross compatible to bring the strengths of many to one central point for networking and growth.

The PWNA also has trade shows with a main focus on the power washing industry. They are moving their focus toward becoming an educational organization. The PWNA lists among other member benefits: use of logo, subscription to newsletter, member only BBS as well as discounts with participating vendors.

The WRAPI organization is very specific. WRAPI is an educational organization with a strong focus on member benefits and support. Because the focus is specialized, WRAPI is able to provide excellent resources and small business assistance to it's contractor members. WRAPI does not host any trade shows but rather allows those manufacturers and distributors who profit from our members to participate by sponsoring the WRAPI benefit programs. WRAPI does offer both training and assistance in securing job leads and work contracts. In addition members receive many of the more traditional benefits such as news letters, discounts and free marketing materials to promote your business.

It's not so much a matter of will contractors join all three so it is not really about market share. It is about a contractor looking at each organization for what it is. Each organization has something different to offer. Some will be drawn to join all three because all three will return a benefit that outweighs the cost. Others may just join one or two. At the end of the day I think it will be less about market share and more about return on investment.

The thing about an entrepreneursn as both you and Ron pointed out, they are pretty keen. Very few have to be led. Successful entrepreneurs continually put their energy to things that return a benefit to their company. When they find something that works, it is natural for them to stick with it.

Best of Luck

Russell Cissell
Click to expand...

Russell, We can agree to disagree on this, And that is the beauty of America. In my opinion it is all about market share AND return on investment. ANd that is what I stated. My post wasn't a paid advertisement for any organization. It just stated what I see as facts and what you reiterated in parts of your post.

I think our theme was the same in that the org that provides the best means for a contractor to make money will do well. Contractors will not likely pay to belong to multiple organizations.

But gaining a percentage of the dues paying members available in the industry is called market share'



There are several thousand Pressure Washing Companies in this country , only a a small percentage do pay dues to a trade org. The reason most do not are likely this.... One - they can't afford dues, Two - they are doing well and dont see the need, or three - are uneducated to the services of organizations available. Either way.... it seems that it will be difficult to recruit from either group and educate the ignorant. Rule #1 of MArketing - It is easier to sell to people who have purchased the service from you or a competitor in the past. Other trade organization members have essentially pre-qualified themselves as potential WRAPI members.... THey have demonstrated thier desire, need and ability to get out the checkbook and pay the dues.

Again... I understand that we may see this differently. This is just my opinion regarding market share.
 
I also look at it as seperate Org's with different Idea's and goals and even though some of these do criss cross they are also so very different.

UAMCC is an Org. for profit and that alone is a big difference from the PWNA, WRAPI and The IWCA. Of course every Org's goal is to make a profit but when you are not listed as a "Non Profit Org" then the tax ramifications are completely different. This alone can and does change what the goals are for that org.

Now since PWNA WRAPI and the IWCA are all not for Profit org's then you must analyze them to see which one, two or all three would benefit your company the most. The IWCA which has been established for quite a few years now has specific guidelines which they adhere to and if there goals and idea's fit your business then by all means join them because they are an excellent org. that is very "Organized". The PWNA stands for a few different type of businesses and if your business falls into one or more of those type of businesses and you can see the benefit of being a member of them like I do then of course give it a go.

WRAPI seems to be a very specific type ORG. that is targeting the people/business who deal with Wood Restoration with there goal being education to enhance there businesses. Even though they aren't in the Convention end of the business they remind me of IKECA(Kitchen Exhaust association) that also target one specific group.

I personally only belong to one org. but I know a few people who belong to multiple org's. and they market that as such. If done correctly being a part of an Org. can do wonders for your business and its up to you to decide which org. whether it being one or many best fit your business. The leg work is up to you.
 
Some interesting conversation within this thread. I think anyone starting an organization will find it much more effort and not as profitable as initially thought.

Just to clarify a few factual pieces of information. PWNA has always been about education. Education was the premise of PWNA’s start and will continue on until the membership wishes to change direction.

In the beginning PWNA pulled together other power washing peers to educate the AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) concerning wastewater management and lobby for change.

Now PWNA represents the Power Washing Contractor through lobbying efforts at many levels.

I say more power to Russell Cissell for starting a new wood organization. It takes a lot of effort to run an existing organization I can only imagine the efforts to be multiplied for Russell in the next several years. Good Luck.



M. D. "Doc" Reisman
Immediate Past President
Power Washers of North America
doc@nfs-fire.com
(847)-406-5073 (Direct/Fax)
(847)-922-4921 (Cell)
 
I have always maintained that membership in an organization is a tool. We are one of those contractors who believe that it takes multiple tools to accomplish your work to the level of professionalism that is expected.

We joined the PWNA for support and networking within our pressure washing business as a whole. We have learned a great deal, have built our credibility and ability through our membership and participation.

We joined WRAPI for the distinct benefits of an organization that focuses on wood - the area that carries about 70% of our business.

We joined the UAMCC for the across the board networking opportunities - it will allow us to bridge some of the gaps between professions that these other organizations don't address.

We joined the NAHB for the local networking and marketing advantage we have over our local competition.

We make our monetary and time investments based on what our return will be. Personally, the education that we have received from the PWNA has been immeasurable....well worth the annual dues. We believe strongly in the approach WRAPI is taking and are confident that our investment with this organization will be returned to us ten-fold (or better). Our membership dues in the NAHB have been paid for (if you're looking at the financial end) for the next 12 years from the business gained by participation in the first month. I have high hopes for successful participation with the UAMCC.

Membership is going to be what you make of it, how you use it and how you place participation in your prioritization of time and monetary investments.

Just my .06.
 
"Doc"

I didn't intend to imply that the PWNA is new to education as this is certainly not the case.

Thank you for the kind words of encouragement. I appreciate your support. I should point out that I am not doing this alone. No individual can make the efforts required to insure WRAPI's success. WRAPI has the support of some talented individuals and organizations. It is the strength of the group that will carry WRAPI toward it's mission.

I want to address the issue of "profit," as I see it continuing to pop up. WRAPI is a not-for-profit corporation. Anyone who gets involved with this kind of organization looking for the "profit" in it, clearly does not understand the business structure. The stakeholders in WRAPI are the members and the property owners they serve.

WRAPI is also a corporation and functions as one. There are leases and insurance and bills and employees and all of these expenses need to be met. In addition WRAPI provides a number of contractor support benefits that each require a capital expenditure. WRAPI provides a service to the community in the form of career assistance and vocational training for those looking for employment. In addition the organization strives to raise the level of professionalism in the wood restoration industry.

At the end of the day (or fiscal year as it were) the difference is simple. In a typical corporation, profits are paid out to shareholders in the form of dividends. In a not-for-profit corporation like WRAPI any money left at the end of the year goes into supporting the WRAPI programs. In a typical corporation the few shareholders decide the course of the business and make choices based on what will bring the individuals the most profit. In WRAPI the stakeholders (contractors, homeowners and the Contractor BOD) evaluate the direction and progress of the organization and make the corrections required to bring the maximum benefit to all.

Clearly, I've got an individual interest in WRAPI's success. It was my vision, so there is a bit of a pride factor involved. Moreover, I make my living in the wood restoration industry. Raising the level of professionalism in the wood restoration industry will serve me in a few ways.

First, I am the owner of Extreme Solutions, Inc.
ESI is a typical for profit corporation. While I've always believed that supporting our contractor customers was crucial for business, there is only so much we could do alone. Working with WRAPI I am part of a team and together can do so much more. Each manufacturer represents a slice of the pie (market share). If I help make the whole pie better it helps my slice too. This reason is personal to me, but it applies to each and every supplier that believes in WRAPI's mission and sponsors the organization.

Second, before all I am a contractor.
By raising the level of professionalism in the industry it makes it easier for me to command the price I need to ensure that I am able to run a profitable contracting business. In addition, as a member of WRAPI, I have access to the discounts on supplies and the free marketing materials that are available to all members. This gives me an advantage over my local competition.

Third, it's fun.
I enjoy what I do. As was pointed out, there is no shortage of work to be done when it comes to starting and running any organization. When I sit quietly and think about what I want to do with my spare time, this is it. I enjoy teaching and learning and talking about wood restoration.

For me WRAPI was just the natural thing to do.

Best of Luck

Russell Cissell
 
I have heard people saying things such as...we used to only have one org, now we have three... Actually, there has been more than one org out there for quite a while if you look at various segments of the contract cleaning and restoration industries.

Many wood restoration specialists have been asking for quite some time for something that fits their specific needs. Not all woodcare companies do the same types of work, or have the same needs but I know we are proud to be a part of WRAPI and are happy to help it grow and evolve.

We are proud members of both PWNA and WRAPI and plan to join UAMCC.

Beth
 
Ron Musgraves said:
A few days back i got into a converstaion with another PW and we started talking about Wrapi.

Russel C. and i had been talking about organization when we had our first round table many years back. We had anilized the down falls of others org. over the last ten years.


We had drawn a conclusion that most of these orgs had no real benifits and seemed to be marketing machines for a few select individual.

No one on the Board unless they where in selling or products had no real reason to be there.

Volinteers dont really have much interest to achive and long term happenings.


Bingo, the problem in a nut shell,,, No real interest. Keep in mind if we wanted to donate money to a charity we could select a better way to donate the money.

The inseption of a successful org was no longer a dream but a idea locked in someones head.

four or five years later now on paper and detailed the out looks like a great idea. Inovative and a well thought and a plan for the future.


I have not joined Wrapi and may never. I do think if your a wood person i think you shouldnt count them out. I think if you do your just being a narrow minded individual. I think Ideas start as dreams. Dreams to make things better and make more money.


I talk about profit and Non-profit.

This a staus that a company runs under guidelines for tax benifits and other selters and beni's. Anyone who thinks people get involved in a NON-profit doenst want to make profit are just alittle stupid.

Sorry for being so straight forward about this. I have talked with Russ for many years and one of the things i like about Wrapi is that its going to make dollars. The members are supposed to make dollars. This is what a NON-profit organization does. (Wrapi is not a charity)


This is the strong point of Wrapi, the comitment to Members to put dollars in there pocket.

If little league didnt make money they would not be around. Boy & girls, WMCA and so on and so On.


Wrapi and its founders are out to put togther a program that will make all who join Money.

Thats what a organization should focus on. Thru education and marketing and training method they will teach vetrans and new bees how to be successful.


I believe that we all know that the PWNA is currently making radicle changes to run and make more money. the need for and organization to make money to supprt its members is a definite. If this doesnt happen then no one will gain. certanly not the industry or members.


Folks stop being so silly, all involved should want to make money and want all whom join to make money. Is a Wrapi going to be porfitable for its members? I hope or they wont be around long.

is its a NON-profit ORG? (YES) are they going to make money? (I HOPE SO)
Click to expand...


I dont think My views have changed Much
 
That is a very good post Ron, very true and definately something for a lot of people to read.
 
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