"What If" Insurance question

Clean County PW

Clean County PW

Active member
The hated "What IF" question but here it goes.

What IF I get into an accident with my Truck while I'm hauling around water and a hot water PW in the bed and also towing my trailer. Would my Insurance cover the damage done to my vehicle, equipment and trailer it there was any.

I am listed as a sole Proprietor(THis will change) but more importantly My truck has commercial plates and my insurance company of course knows that because the plate is on my insurance info.

Another "What if" since I'm at it.
What if my trailer or just my PW was stolen from my truck then who pays for that?

Thanks
 
I posed a similar question to my insurance agent, his response was this.
Any trailer be it utility, horse, or a car on a dolly is covered under your standard policy with no additional mess to contend with. It is considered an extension of your vehicle.
If your carrier knows that it is a commercial vehicle there is no surprises you should be covered.

As for it being stolen, He didnt say, and I believe that it can vary depending on your policy. I will ask him next week.

I'm hoping this is truely a what if and that no one got hurt if there was a mishap.:)
 
There is an "Inland Marine" add-on you can add to your policy which will cover your equipment for Fire, Theft and Vandalism.

It's also a good idea to get "Care, Custody, and Control" Insurance Coverage as well. It covers what your working on, in case you damage something.

If you haven't seen it already here is a pretty good article about insurance coverage needed for someone in the PW biz.
 
Insurance

The insurance company who covers your truck would probably want a list of all your equipment and the chemicals and supplies that you carry, then they would create a "rider" and charge you more money. Insurance agents used to ask me if I carried any equipment or supplies in my truck and my answer used to be "no", I would just tell them that my equipment was in a fixed location, but I stopped doing that.

I recently learned that my business liability insurance covered my equipment all the time, and that was a surprise!!

Roger thanks for that link, that was good stuff.
 
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Hi Guys,

I go thru a "What If" with my agent every year or so. I have started taking a inventory of our equipment each year. I also make note of mileages and hour meter readings. Made up sheets and list all equipment and supplys by area. In shop and on trucks. Also take pictures.

I give the agent a copy and keep a copy for our files. Just in case we have a major loss. We have so many tools it would be very hard to remember everything we had if our building and equipment were a total loss!

Dave Olson
 
Those were truly the hated "What If" questions. There was no accident. Thanks Roger for redirecting me to Delco's board where they have that info.

I also know that the Blastmaster issue #1 I think had a story about this from Joe Walters and of course I misplaced that magazine somewhere which is pretty unusual for me.

Its important to cover all corners in business. It takes one catastrophe big or even small where if you don't have all corners covered your business could be history such as losing everything you put into from a minor accident because one wasn't covered.

p/s-the only problem I am having with my truck and trailer that it is dirty from the winter weather and its a little to cold to clean it even though its been a mild winter here so far.

I need to get myself back into the work mode which is next month. I'm getting Lazy just banging away on my computer.
 
I wish Joe Walters would post on these boards, but he refuses to do that these days.

He's a nice (and interesting) man.
 
Correct answer(s), in order:

The material damage section of your vehicle policy (assuming you have M D cvrg) does not extend to the trailer. It extends only to equipment which came with vehicle (jack, etc.) You can apply for inland marine Contractor's Equipt Floater for machine(s) and tools, however it is expensive therefore unfeasible. The insurance which extends to the trailer is the liability section. This still precludes physical damage coverage - the premise is that you can never be liable to yourself. Most carriers use the 'family' auto policy which limits even this extension to trailers 2,000 lbs GVW or less. Don't count on "insurance company (or agent) knows" about the commercial aspect. You need something to document that - most agents simply toss it in a drawer or throw it up on the wall to see if it sticks. You may find that the "plate" is not on your dec sheet. Almost always the VIN only is shown.

For Grant - you need an agent who is less glib and more knowledgable.

Roger, the CCC is an endorsement on a Gen Liab policy. Vehicle coverage is a separate issue.

Dave, inventory is a good idea, however one should (at least once) provide a copy for the home office underwriters. Again, the agent is fallible - and sometimes careless. Guess who has the burden of proof? Pics are best. B/T/W, the moment of truth is at the time of loss - not when underwritten.

Key is still 'catastrophic' loss. Coverage for all hand tools, etc, is neither prudent nor possib le. Even the IM floater carries either a 'flat' or 'franchise' (sliding) deductible which, of course, eliminates all smaller losses anyway.

Guess I was in the business too long. I know what happens, therefore carry virtually no physical damage coverage, rather electing to assume this risk myself. Hope this helps.

Richard
 
i asked the same question about theft to my insurance agent when my van was cleaned out in a buddies driveway while we were around back in the garage,they took so much stuff half the dirt was missing on the carpet,the pennies were gone in the change tray,credit cards,and about $4000 worth of construction tools,and the keys were in the ignition.

he said in order to cover theft i would have to have a seperate policy covering it,and since it was my second time of being robbed in two years no one would cover me.
 
Tim,
I can sympathize with you. Moreover I may be able to pass along something that may help you. First of all, a sales agent is not where to direct your coverage questions. Always call the ins co home office P D claims. In this case it is apparent the agent misdirected you, assuming the info you provide is correct. I don't want to be the 'insurance guru', but at the risk of same I feel compelled to make answer that may help.

I am unfamiliar with N C Dept of Ins regs - each state DOI regulates its own, however some principles will apply. It may be more difficult to obtain coverage with the carriers your agent represents if multiple crime losses, however not all carriers subscribe to the crime info 'pool'. There is always a way for a savvy agent to enable you to obtain coverage. In addition, the need to obtain a 'floater' in order to cover may not be accurate.

Follow carefully. You mention your buddy and you were in his garage and items were stolen from vehicle in his driveway. This implies he has a freestanding dwelling he either owns or rents. In either case he surely would carry a 'package' policy (homeowners; renters - commonly known as HO-3 or HO-4). You mention "construction tools".

Here are the facts: business personal property has very limited coverage (usually $250) under your own policy. Your vehicle CCD coverage includes only that which pertains to the vehicle. No help there. It is most probable your friend carries a package police introduced in the mid-70s known as the 'HO-76' policy forms. If his home is insured for, let's say $150,000, it is common to use 75% of dwelling amt addl on contents, or $112,500 on contents (coverage 'C'). Of that $112,500 ten percent applies to property of guests or 'invitees'. You were in the garage therefore an 'invitee'. Property was on your friend's premises, therefore the 'property of others' applies with limit of $11,250.

Now the catch - your friend must report and appeal to his own carrier. Really not a problem - loss is not his own, and you as a guest would not use your own coverage anyway, therefore no one is charged - a real win-win. Another caveat - one has a duty to promptly report. Should not be a problem if occurrence in the last year or so since you would not be accused of 'superior knowledge' - it is probable neither you nor your own agent even knows of these stipulations. Secondly, don't worry if no police report - they will simply take your affidavit. Lastly, have your friend make a report to the agent, and then bypass the agent and deal with company (or 'outside') claims only. The agent usually has no authority, and often little or no knowledge. The one caution is "construction tools". If some tools were for personal use you will need to divide this out. The construction tools will be subject to severe depreciation and little or no value, whereas the personal effects will usually be adjusted on 'replacement cost'. You really should have no problem recovering for your loss. B/T/W, there should be no deductible on this 'goodwill' coverage loss.

Richard
 
Joe Walters ,

I have invited all PWNA board Members last week. Joseph Walters has had many invitations too this BBS. Via E-mail, FAX and me personally calling and telling him.

Why would someone that belongs to the Pwna Not want to answer his own industry Questions that are asked on this BBS and many others??????? why????????
 
Ron,
See above post for partial answer.

In respect to question about reluctance to post answers - a property/casualty insurance policy, with all of its interpretations and ramifications, is perhaps the most complex instrument known to man. In addition, it would be rare to find an agent (or broker - probably Walters) who has substantial claims training or knowledge. General recommendations are easy; specific answers to a claims question is much more difficult. Most questions on a BB are personal in nature and pertain to specific claims. In addition, a typical insuance contract is unilateral and therefore 'adhesive', ie, any ambiguity is construed against the maker or one who represents the maker of contract. Is it not now clear why a practicing agent/broker would not want to jeopardize his own standing? Especially in a public forum! I don't know Walters, but give the guy some slack. As for myself I have no ax to grind - I had in excess of 30 years in all-lines insurance, and boy am I now glad to be a grease-buster. I only wish I had discovered it sooner. Life is much simpler! Don't hold any envy for Walters.

YJGLTB, Richard
 
I won't presume to speak for Joe Walters but I asked him point blank a few weeks ago "why don't you come to the bulletin boards"? He went into a list of reasons why, but Richard touched on the main one in his post. Joe said that there are alot complex issues to deal with in his business and he didn't want misunderstandings to occur as a result of a bulletin board post.

I brought the subject up to him because I respect him, and I think his input would be valuable on here. But Joe's sticking to his guns and is adament that he won't post on any bulletin board.
 
RJTRAVEL,thankyou for the info regarding my tragedy,this happened in jan. 2000 ironically it was october 99 the first time i was hit,in jan. 2000 when my stuff was taken(they were pros,and i mean PROS) the conversation at the local home depot was the same story for about a month,seems a proffessional thievery ring came through and wiped out charlotte,my buddy never offered the advice of the homeowners policy,which doesnt suprise me because he had a friends motorcycle over doing some work on it and it got missing too,the guy raised cain wanting him to contact his mothers ins. policy to make a claim,and they refused to file one. i know that sucks,its not right

i honestly thought about the home owner coverage at the time but my friend didnt offer and i valued our friendship enough not to make a big deal of it.

i was devastated from it,especially since i hadnt fully recouped from the year before,i walked around a 2 mile radius till 2 am hoping to hear someone playing with my nailgun or saw.
i believe if i would have heard anything resembling one of my tools being operated i would have kicked down there door and shot em.
thanks for the info.
 
It sounds like if One's trailer gets banged up in an accident than there may be no coverage at all. Unless of course there is another vehicle involved who was at fault.

I Can't seem to find my first issue of the Blastmaster mag. where Joe Walters submitted an article about Insurance.
Does anyone know if any of this was brought up in that article? And also if theft of equipment was brought up?

These are just questions that run through my mind because I like to have ever avenue covered in case there ever is a crisis pertaining to my business.
 
To everyone,,

No one is bashing Joe Walters, just letting you know that I have invited and I guess he has turned down the offer. Unlike others that are a member of the PWNA that post frequent. We all can make excuses for our actions and some of us take action.

I believe Joe if he is truly a supporter of the industry and not just a profiteer would come and help people to get the questions and answers.

Lets see we all have liability risk when answering posts. Sure Joe because he is a broker may be at higher risk. COME ON its his business to know when and what he can say.


Simple Questions can surly be answered and I will try to get others that want to help. I will call my agent and see if they want to help.

I have not read this whole post and probably will not. My only issue was we have a pro in this industry that is not willing to participate. That’s his right and if he doesn’t want to I won’t condemn him. I do question why he is A PWNA board Member?????


No one is saying that Joe Walter or any other PWNA member is a bad person. It would just be nice to get to know some of these other PWNA members and Board members VIA BBS.

_______________________________________________________________________



I respect men like Chris Detter for taking a stand and leading the way to show selfless concerns for contractors all around the Globe. Chris and his partner Pete are Great guys. They are to profiting off the Pwna but I believe they personally put back more than they ever will receive.

Hats off too hopefully our new PWNA president Chris Detter.





Chris’s Example makes Running this BBS a little easier.

I stand for anything positive in the industry regardless of my own personal Views. Business Is business………
 
Ron, your response passes surprising - it is startling! Obviously you have not read the posted info, but in sum - the guy would lose his appointment agreements with carriers if he were to drift into this realm! Come on! No thinking agent/broker would ever do such a reckless thing. This is not an "excuse". Your personal liability "risks"(?) cannot be compared to his exposed E&O - your conclusions are horribly amiss.

'Clean Country', you indeed can cover the trailer - simple endorsement - however there are other issues involved. You will need to think it through and do your own diligence in respect to covering trailer under a 'commercial' policy. Could be a mistake. You may "like to have every avenue covered", but we all like things which may be out of reach. Any agent suggesting such a concept has just taken an excursion into cloudland. Get used to disappointment.

Tim, your are welcome. It does sound as if your buddy is not much a valued friend. The claim would not affect him at all! If you know the carrier it still is not too late to make claimant submittal. If your 'friend' is uncooperative then make claim anyway - it is not his problem. Not sure of N C, but in states with which I am familiar it is legally incumbent upon the carrier to give you a response. It is not likely they will dismiss this with a wave of the hand. As for the motorcycle theft the home policy would not pay anyway - vehicles are not personal effects and are excluded under every home policy I have seen in the last 20 or 25 years. Prior to that there was some ambiguity therefore claimants had some ground, but today carriers have tightened up the exclusionary language. You have two more areas of recovery - you have 3 years to amend your tax returns to show this casualty loss. Secondly, the advice you were given is possibly flawed. I would not hesitate to seek the advice of a contracts attorney. It is possible that this is an 'errors and omissions' question. Lastly, don't kick down a door and shoot anybody. Your comprehensive personal liability will not defense you. Kicking down doors and shooting people is against public policy and therefore illegal. First-party illegal activities are not within the scope of any policy of insurance.

Now I'm done! I do hope this helps. I'm taking the night off and heading outta here to a really nice fondue restaurant (ok, now I gotta work an extra night just to pay for it).

YJGLTB, Richard
 
if your going to the Melting Pot,make sure you take the american express,and try one of the chocalate martinis,enjoy.
 
Tim,
You must be a mind-reader (as if that were possible in my case). The Melting Pot was great! I am glad I took your advice and brought the credit card, except now I have a new dilemma. After paying for our meals I am now floundering between penury and poverty. To add insult to injury they don't even have any hoods I can clean! Sheesh! Oh well, my wife loved it - makes it all worthwhile.

Richard
 
Another thing to consider here John. The way our Nationwide Commercial policy works with our commercial vehicles and trailers is that if the pressure washer, tank, etc., is bolted to the vehicle it is considered part of that vehicle. So regardless if you have it on the trailer or the truck, it's covered provided you have full coverage on both trailer and truck like we do. Now for clarification, we've also got Landa's that are interchangeable, ie.. we can take the wheel units off and bolt them down or keep them mobile and strap 'em down. Even though nobody in their right mind is going to be trying to take a 500 lb. hot water unit off a trailer or truck, wheel units or not, it's still considered mobile as long as those wheels are attached. When they are bolted they are covered by commercial vehicle coverage. If they are mobile, then we have them on seperate inland marine coverage as part of our general liability policy. Kind of a pain since we have two seperate companies for the different insurance needs, but it covers us if anything happens.

Also, the way our policy is setup, our trailers are seperate units, not just part of the truck. They have their own VIN's, license plates, etc so they are seperate units. We have full coverage on all vehicles AND trailers just in case a trailer or power washer would disappear we are covered. Anything that is worth over a thousand bucks gets listed on the inland marine policy in case it's stolen or damaged.

Everything else is fully insured and protected by me, my 9MM and a 4 foot piece of lightweight angle iron strategically located under my front seat... :)
 
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