Running Two Feeds To Hose Reel

814jeffw

Active member
I made a remote control unit for my soap,..the soap injector is connected to the reel,..But,..I also want to be able to bypass the injector when running a surface cleaner. Last two seasons I've used the by-pass valve and it worked well. I don't have room for that thing with the new design,..I am thinking of running a "T" from the unloader and connecting another line to the other side of the reel. And have a HP ball valve on that side so I can have it off when using the soap injector. And with the turn of the valve I can bypass the soap injector.

Do I need a ball valve on the other side,.or will it just pressurize the system and equalize everything and be fine? Just wondering,..I can't see it hurting anything leaving the soap injector side running. Hope I explained it properly.

Jeff
 

Kiloman

New member
When you say soap injector are you talking about the solonoid valve because you must have at least one of those somewhere to let the soap flow.I have my remote set up with 2 dema 481 p valves.When you use these valves with bleach make sure you have some spare plungers with you because they will go bad fast.The truck washing seems to do fine but when the house washing start you will need some spares.That bypass system russ sells works great for what you are wanting to do i would just find room for it cant see not having room for it its really small.
 

814jeffw

Active member
No Hal,..I know the solenoid is not a soap injector,....I'm talking about a soap injector,..(AKA) the downstreamer,.....I have a by-pass that I used last year and is probably smaller than the ones sold,..and there just isn't room. I've been saying I'm out of room now for about the last 5 years,..and always seem to find room,...but it's very tight now,Ha,Ha,... I've been using the same trailer for 20 years,...so when I say I'm outta room,..I'm outta room.

That didn't really answer my question whether there'd be an issue with the second line . Basically running a line to the other side of the hose reel manifold without an injector,..controlled by a ball valve to be used when I'm running a surface cleaner,..and rinsing flat work.

Was just wondering if I need a ball valve on the other side to stop the flow from going back to the unloader,..or if it's irrelevant?

Jeff
 

Kiloman

New member
Not qualified to answer that post a pic of this pack trailer i would like to see that no room for a hose an valve must be packed lol.
 

Ralph Q

New member
No Hal,..I know the solenoid is not a soap injector,....I'm talking about a soap injector,..(AKA) the downstreamer,.....I have a by-pass that I used last year and is probably smaller than the ones sold,..and there just isn't room. I've been saying I'm out of room now for about the last 5 years,..and always seem to find room,...but it's very tight now,Ha,Ha,... I've been using the same trailer for 20 years,...so when I say I'm outta room,..I'm outta room.

That didn't really answer my question whether there'd be an issue with the second line . Basically running a line to the other side of the hose reel manifold without an injector,..controlled by a ball valve to be used when I'm running a surface cleaner,..and rinsing flat work.

Was just wondering if I need a ball valve on the other side to stop the flow from going back to the unloader,..or if it's irrelevant?

Jeff
Unloaders have check valves.
 

814jeffw

Active member
Hal,..It isn't so much packed,..but things are tight where the valve would go. I've been doing this and rigging for a long time,..Could I make it work,..sure I could,..But, I like things the way I like them,..the trailer was extended to make more space a few years ago. So you can LOL all day long, but unless you'd see it you won't understand. And I really don't see the need to take a picture so you can verify I don't have room.


Thanks Ralph!

Jeff
 

Christopher

Moderator
Jeff, I am having a hard time trying to understand what you are trying to do with 2 hoses running to the reel. Why not run a longer jumper hose from the machine to wherever you can put the bypass and then a jumper hose to the reel? You can run long jumper hoses to the reel if you have to. I had a few hoses blow out in the past few months (old hoses not worth repairing) and I had a 20' jumper handy so I used it as the jumper from the machine to the reel blew out.
Are you trying to run 2 hoses from the unloader and connect either one to the hose reel (not both at the same time), which ever one you are using instead of doing the bypass like most of us have? Is that what you are trying to do? If so then I don't see why it will not work, I would use hydraulic (high pressure) fittings and put the ball valve on both hoses so you can block either that is not being used if I understand you.
I have jumper hoses from each of the 3 machines so that they can connect to either hose reel (in case a hose blows out I can just swap over to another reel and be back up running quick. A couple of the reels have the hose connected to the swivel, other reels have the hose there for storage so you have to unroll the hose and connect the jumper and when done, disconnect the jumper so you can roll up the hose. Hope this helps.

I just re-read and I think I understand it now with the injector and remote control. Run 2 jumpers from the "T" after the unloader, one going to the remote and the other closer to the hose reel. You could either put ball valves on each hose and QC's on the end of both after the ball valve so you can just unplug whichever hose you need to swap from and connect the other to the reel using the ball valves.
OR
You can put a long jumper with a "T" on it and one line going to the remote hose and the other side going to the other hose so it is like a oval, with the "T" at each end so you do not disconnect anything, just open a ball valve and close the other, kind of like a huge injector bypass but with a lot more hose. Hope this helps.
 

814jeffw

Active member
Yea Christopher,..I think I understand,..that you understand, Ha,Ha,.. Yes,..I used a typical by-pass valve for the last two seasons and really like the ability to turn the valve and shut down the injector,..and have full flow. I could get the by-pass inline with the remote and injector,..but,..I'd rather run the two hoses,..because it's actually simpler in my case to run another hose from the unloader with a "T",..and let the unrestricted side off when I'm DS'ing. I know it will work,..there's no reason it won't. But I guess my main concern was when I turn the ball valve to open up the full flow side,..will it hurt anything to NOT shut off the injector side,....I would think it will just equalize? I will likely do as you say and just control both sides with ball valves,..then then there's no question of it affecting anything.

Thanks Christopher!,..you put some time and thought into your response,..I know I made it confusing,..but I think you got what I am wanting to do. Yes,..basically making a long way around by-pass valve. Don't want to un-plug and plug,..just turning valves is more my speed. No shutting down.


Jeff
 

Kiloman

New member
Jeff Hey buddy i wasnt trying to make you mad or frustrated with me i just dont quite understand what you are doing.I can show you things about remotes chemicals an valves and tell you about good rottweilers because thats things that i do and do very well.But this question of valves had me confused an if you need a little bit of room why dont you just get a longer trailer for your equipment?
 

814jeffw

Active member
No problem Hal,..I actually like the trailer i have,..It's an old "Wash On Wheels" ,...I keep saying I need a bigger trailer,..(And Maybe I do),..but I got mine fixed up how I like it, Ha,Ha,.. And although it sounds crowded,..it is very organized and doesn't look cluttered,..,..which is why I didn't want to stick a valve in the places that were available,..If I had to I would,..After all form follows function,..BUT is why I was wondering about simply running a line to the other side,..it will look better and less congested.

Also,..with these Dema 481P valves,..do you ever buy the Viton plunger as your replacements?,..Had a Dema rep point me in the right direction for these.

https://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-18714-plunger-assembly.aspx

https://www.autowashonline.com/default.aspx?
page=item%20detail&itemcode=DEM+41.2.15&catlist=750



Autowashonline.com is the better deal,...$17.65 and $8.00 shipping to my zip code


Jeff
 

Kiloman

New member
With the 481 p the problem is microscopic pitting that happens an your plunger starts to stick an cause the valve to either stick open or closed.Either way it doesnt work as it should.Those should help but that spring in there gets worn as well.Good information .
 

814jeffw

Active member
How long do the stock EPDM plungers and the springs last with 12.5% before sticking starts? 2 weeks a month or what? I will do like I do with o-rings,..just replace them before they actually "need" replaced.

The guy who e-mailed me from the autowash place said shipping would be be the same for 10 plungers as it is for one,...So I may do that.

I also have a spare 481P solenoid.

Jeff
 

814jeffw

Active member
Question,..Just brain storming,.as I really haven't a need for running (2) soap injectors simultaneously,...but it got me thinking about posts over the years of guys wanting to double their mix strength by running (2) soap injectors in line. Can't be done because of one counteracting the other or something. Seems like it could be done though by running (2) hoses from the unloader to each side of the inlets on the reel,..and having an injector on each side of the manifold? Seems like that would double the soap percentage,..wouldn't it?

Jeff
 

Ralph Q

New member
Question,..Just brain storming,.as I really haven't a need for running (2) soap injectors simultaneously,...but it got me thinking about posts over the years of guys wanting to double their mix strength by running (2) soap injectors in line. Can't be done because of one counteracting the other or something. Seems like it could be done though by running (2) hoses from the unloader to each side of the inlets on the reel,..and having an injector on each side of the manifold? Seems like that would double the soap percentage,..wouldn't it?

Jeff
It can be done. There are guys on the facebook groups that are working on all that. Dual injectors that actually double the output. Before dual injectors would just split the amount injected. There is a guy that figured out how to put them inline and not shut one off. Something to do with putting a larger orifice second so the first one isn't shut off due to too much back pressure, had a video of it working. And what you described can be done too. I tried a simple experiment with two injectors running parallel and it actually worked but one injector pulled barely anything. There are physics involved that will allow you to do it, just got to keep tweaking. Andy Vickers is working an a dual injector that is going to kick some a$$ when he starts selling them.
 

ProClean

New member
Got an email from Envirospec the other day about their new machines and they're putting a chem injection pump on some of them. Guess they debuted at PWNA show couple of years ago. Claims it gets 4 times the soap of regular injector and 2 times one of their super suds on a 5.5gpm machine. Here is a video they did on it. Think it's about $180.
https://youtu.be/BYaX9hGVgkU
 

814jeffw

Active member
Hey Ralph,..I really have no foreseeable need for dual injectors,..seems to me even at double strength,..it's still not enough percentage to clean mold we use dedicated pumps for now,...and would be overkill on these Central, Pa house washes. Maybe cool weather washing could benefit,..or concrete that is bad but not so bad as to run a dedicated pump. So for me,.it would kinda' fall into an area of impracticality for the most part. Maybe "double" Ds'ing something like oxalic in certain situations could prove valuable,..but nothing I can think of off hand. I only mentioned it because I remember guys working on it,..and I'm making my reel dual feed so I can leave the injector inline yet be able to run the surface cleaner at full flow by turning a valve on from the other side,..and not have to shut down. Like a really long by-pass valve,Ha,Ha,.. The idea of running an injector into each side was just a passing thought.


* I may mess with it,..because sometimes you never knew you needed something until you have it,..then you find more uses than you realize,Ha,Ha,..

**Little off topic,.but I'd had trouble with soap injectors being "stuck" the next day,..even after flushing thoroughly,..irritating to say the least,..so I got in the habit of just pulling the hose off and poking the ball loose. I think the 0-ring seat gets sticky after while and starts sticking to the ball? Anyone ever replace the 0-ring seat?
Anyhow,..I clipped the spring down by about 1/4 of it's length and it has really helped the sticking issue,..and didn't noticeably effect the injectors performance.

Jeff
 

814jeffw

Active member
Got an email from Envirospec the other day about their new machines and they're putting a chem injection pump on some of them. Guess they debuted at PWNA show couple of years ago. Claims it gets 4 times the soap of regular injector and 2 times one of their super suds on a 5.5gpm machine. Here is a video they did on it. Think it's about $180.
https://youtu.be/BYaX9hGVgkU

Hey Rick,..I can see guys reverse engineering or more like "copying" that thing and making their own,..doesn't look like there's much to it? Isn't it basically force feeding the injector?

Jeff
 

Christopher

Moderator
People have been talking about using an electric pump to feed chemical through the injector since I started reading the forums back in 2003 after many years of pressure washing and finally deciding to start my own pressure washing business in 2004.
It is as simple as it sounds, nothing too special about it, several vendors have talked about it and can help you build one if you really have to have it.
Between Downstreaming for 95% to 98% of most jobs, the other jobs can usually be done with the X-Jet or if needing stronger chemical then you have the dedicated chemical pump.
It is all based on what you need to get the job done.
When you think about it, if the electric pump/chemical injection systems were really needed that badly don't you think all the vendors out there (the good vendors) would be selling them like crazy? Look at everything that is for sale these days, most of it is what people need daily but some of it is specialized for those that need it for their niche or specialized cleaning projects.
 
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