Recent Job

Don Phelps

Don Phelps

New member

Attachments

  • windsorsummit 070.jpg
    windsorsummit 070.jpg
    118.2 KB · Views: 156
  • windsorsummit 071.jpg
    windsorsummit 071.jpg
    114.4 KB · Views: 104
  • windsorsummit1000.JPG
    windsorsummit1000.JPG
    127 KB · Views: 174
  • windsorsummit 0592.JPG
    windsorsummit 0592.JPG
    107 KB · Views: 147
Last edited:
Nice job.

We do a lot of similar work and have to constantly deal with companies that come in with much lower bids because they are not covered by Workers Comp. A lot of the contractors down here are under the mistaken impression that they are "Exempt" because they are officers of a corporation or because they are sole proprietors - which has not been the case in Florida for almost four years.

Since the NCCI classifies pressure cleaning as "construction" and a structure like this is considered "commercial" - any company, employee, or sub working on the site is legally required to be covered by Workers Comp and "Exemptions" do not apply.

Here is an interesting link from the Florida DOL that clarifies the law:
http://www.fldfs.com/wc/pdf/234.pdf

When we have to explain the law to property owners, property managers, or GC's, the companies in question are usually taken out of the bid process - but there proposals are still used to some degree to drive the price down.

Do you have much of a problem with this type of situation in your area? If so, how do you handle it?
 
We simply choose to keep the blinders on and focus on our business and not concern ourselves with others. There's no point in wasting energy on things that are beyond one's control. We're having a great year and good luck to all this year! :)
 
The key words here are "building project" or are they using "building" as a verb

I just read the pdf and it looks a lot like the job total is $250k ( like building a house or the entire bid to clean is 250K) or greater not what the property is worth. So if the bids are below 250K then an exemption is OK.
Plus they are talking building project.

I was a pool contractor for 15 years before going into the pressure washing industry and have dealt with WC before.

Did you get the info from someone at WC?
They can give you 3 different answers, depending on how many people you talk to...
 
Oops! sorry about that one.

You know I keep thinking about that WC. If 2 people can get 2 different opinions, then what would happen, if you are wrong?
 
doc723 said:
You know I keep thinking about that WC. If 2 people can get 2 different opinions, then what would happen, if you are wrong?
Click to expand...

It's not about opinions; it's about the law.

If you have questions about the Workers Comp laws in Florida, or if you are confused about what constitutes a “commercial” project, you should contact the DOL Bureau of Compliance directly:
http://www.fldfs.com/wc/organization/boc.html

Or you can simply "put the blinders on" and make believe you don't know the law so that you don't have to incur the costs of following it (otherwise known as Insurance Fraud). And by eliminating this substantial part of your overhead, you can undercut legitimate companies, get more jobs, and you too can become a “guru” in your chosen field – until someone gets hurt or the Department of Labor finds out about you & shuts you down.

Too many companies here in Florida choose to ignore the law & put the burden on legitimate business to pick up the tab for their shortcuts - so our insurance rates are doubled & tripled while they drive the prices down. It’s not good for the industry.

If you know of a company that should have Workers Comp insurance but does not bother to carry it, you should call the DOL, Bureau of Compliance to report them:
http://www.fldfs.com/wc/organization/boc.html

The fines are pretty stiff and include a $5,000 penalty for every “sub” these companies bring onto a jobsite without Workers Comp – but apparently this is the only way that we can “clean up” our industry and weed out the companies that make it harder & less profitable for legitimate companies to operate legally.

BTW, here’s the statute:
440.107
(f) “In addition to any other penalties provided for in this chapter, the department may assess against the employer a penalty of $5,000 for each employee of that employer who the employer represents to the department or carrier as an independent contractor but who is determined by the department not to be an independent contractor as defined in s. 440.02.”
 
Annie Dondero, are you a roof-acide partner. do you have your own telenumbers or do all the call go thru central office?

if you have your own web site pls post it in signature. or your vital info about yourself.

We know John owns roofacide. I'm just asking for clearification.

Good info and it looks like you knwo your stuff, maybe you should have started another thread about this. Things like this bother me also.

My point is that this may have not been the appropriate place for this info. Don was just showing everyone his latest work. its fun to see jobs like this and we are happy he is sharing this info.

Maybe you have some large jobs that roofacide has done. Please post them we would love to see them.
 
Roof-A-Cide said:
Or you can simply "put the blinders on"
Click to expand...


I believe this statement was meant to mean that Don don't care what others do...it ain't his problem. Get on the roof, get it clean, go home. Not hard...:rolleyes:
 
We did get sidetracked off of the original post, I apologize.
We have people that do residential roofs for $125 for a single story and $150 for
a 2 story, that really makes the market crazy. We start at $300.
I love seeing those jobs that we got underbid on later and seeing the poor job that was done.
I give them the WC papers the Liability Insurance and the city/county licenses and the "big" speech about the "if they fall" they own your house if they are not covered. They usually smile and agree.
 
Last edited:
Ron Musgraves said:
Annie Dondero, are you a roof-acide partner. do you have your own telenumbers or do all the call go thru central office?

Good info and it looks like you knwo your stuff, maybe you should have started another thread about this. Things like this bother me also.

My point is that this may have not been the appropriate place for this info. Don was just showing everyone his latest work. its fun to see jobs like this and we are happy he is sharing this info.

Maybe you have some large jobs that roofacide has done. Please post them we would love to see them.
Click to expand...


Ron:
I am not a partner in Roof-A-Cide. I run one of the offices and a roof cleaning company. If you would like to get in touch, you can use the 800 #.

My purpose in posting is simply to point out that many Florida contractors are under the impression that they are "exempt" from workers comp requirements - when this is really not the case.

The "exemption" only applies to individual residential units and quad complexes. Once you start working on apartment complexes, commercial developments, condo units, etc with more than 5 attached units, you are in a different class of contractor and workers comp insurance is required by law.

Some contractors, on this board & others, know this full well - but choose to ignore the law or mislead potential clients. To me, this is no better than a contractor that decides to work without a license or liability insurance.

Some contractors might not have known this, but at least now they do.

My point is, being licensed and insured to do the job is just as important, if not more, than having the right equipment. So when someone sees a job, such as was posted in beginning of this thread, I think it's helpful for them to know what is entailed in doing a job like this properly - unless a person is just coming here to look at the pictures.
 
Roof-A-Cide said:
Nice job.

A lot of the contractors down here are under the mistaken impression that they are "Exempt" because they are officers of a corporation or because they are sole proprietors - which has not been the case in Florida for almost four years. Since the NCCI classifies pressure cleaning as "construction" and a structure like this is considered "commercial" - any company, employee, or sub working on the site is legally required to be covered by Workers Comp and "Exemptions" do not apply.

?
Click to expand...


Absolutely wrong. If you are classified as a construction industry, the laws for you changed several years ago, in Jan 2004 if I'm not mistaken. The OLD laws allowed for the owner and up to 3 (I think, but it may have been 2) employees to be exempt from coverage. It still required filing an exemption form with the State, but it was available for all small contractors. When the laws changed, anyone working in a construction classified field was required to have WC coverage, UNLESS they were an owner/officer of the corporation with at least 10% ownership. That leave non-incorporated construction related contractors needing WC insurance, and incorporated construction related companies unable to exempt ANY employees who are not at least 10% owners of the corporation.

I am exempt, as the owner of a construction related corporation of which I own at least 10%. I have the State of Florida Construction Trade Exemption certificate to prove it.

If you are a non-construction industry company (such as lawn care), you can still get exemption without incorporating, including a limited number of employees.
 
Thats true, I spoke with the WC people and they stated that the pub 234, as listed by Roof-A-Cide was not used anymore. We are construction and have to follow those laws.
 
Roof-A-Cide said:
Here is an interesting link from the Florida DOL that clarifies the law:
http://www.fldfs.com/wc/pdf/234.pdf
Click to expand...

This is dealing with a commercial CONSTRUCTION project valued at $250k or greater, not the value of the property itself. When I get a roof cleaning project going that is worth more than $250k, I'll be glad to purchase WC insurce, which I'll need anyway since I'll have quite a few employees working at that time.

As far as smaller companies undercutting you folks because our overhead is lower because we don't need WC, that may be true in some cases. In other cases, some of us may be getting jobs because we're not selling some pie in the sky BS prevention product to gullible home and business owners. It might be because we don't say "chlorine is bad" and then "we'll be happy to clean your roof with chlorine if you want immediate results". It might be because we didn't have to pay some overblown buy-in price for the right to apply this "prevention" product! LOL

No offense, but you sound an awful lot like Mr. Browne, who has yet to do as he said and run me out of business in Gainesville!! LOL
 
Both Oneness and DOC723 are wrong in their interpretations of the Workers' Comp Law.

Unfortunately, they represent the norm for Pressure Cleaning companies in Florida.

If either of them knew anything about the law, they would know that they are classified as "construction", that exemptions started being phased out years ago, and what the value of a project means in this particular instance.

They would not have to call the "WC People". They would know that WCCI determines the classification for every industry in Florida. If they actually had a Business License or General Liability insurance, they should know this also.

If I were a homeowner or property manager reading this, I would wonder.

http://www.northfloridapressurewashing.com/index.htm

http://www.reefpressurewashing.com/
 
Roof-A-Cide said:
Both Oneness and DOC723 are wrong in their interpretations of the Workers' Comp Law.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, they represent the norm for Pressure Cleaning companies in Florida.

Sounds more to me like someone is trying to use a mis-interpretation of the law to scare their potential clients into hiring them, and scare away their potential competition.

Roof-A-Cide said:
If either of them knew anything about the law, they would know that they are classified as "construction", that exemptions started being phased out years ago, and what the value of a project means in this particular instance.
Click to expand...

Funny...the State of Florida just sent me the paperwork to renew the exemption that you claim was phased out years ago.

Roof-A-Cide said:
They would not have to call the "WC People". They would know that WCCI determines the classification for every industry in Florida. If they actually had a Business License or General Liability insurance, they should know this also.
Click to expand...

Of course they do...they're the ones I called to determine if I was a part of the new WC laws that took effect in 2003. They are not, however, the ones who write or interpret the law. No one is disputing that pressure washing is a part of the construction industry.

Roof-A-Cide said:
If I were a homeowner or property manager reading this, I would wonder.
Click to expand...

Yes, as would I. The things I would wonder about are why a company continues to mis-represent what they're able to deliver to a roof cleaning customer, and why a company feels the need to twist and mis-state the laws regarding WC exemptions to scare clients and competitors. I'd wonder why a FL contractor doesn't understand the meaning of "project value". I'd wonder why in an earlier post you claim this supposed lack of exemption ability applies to commercial/multi-family projects, and yet you feel the need to bring homeowners into the mix in this post. I'd wonder why a roof cleaning contractors cleaims chlorine is terrible for a roof, but offers to clean the roof with chlorine if the customer wants immediate results. Yes, there are a lot of things I'd wonder about if I were a homeowner looking for a roof cleaning contractor and happened upon this thread. I'd wonder why John Browne (I assume that's you, since he's used other aliases on other boards in his harassment attempts) feels the need to send emails to companies in areas where RAC isn't even being marketed threatening to run those companies out of business because his products and methods were called into question.

By the way, thanks for posting my URL. It is in my signature line on all the other boards I frequent, but for some reason I never put it here. I'll fix that now. And of course, the more exposure it gets, the more likely it is a potential customer will find it in a web search! Thank you!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top