PWNA gets some negative reviews In the past Cleaner Times Magazine

Clean County PW

Active member
Did anyone read about the PWNA cruise in the past Cleaner Times Magazine? It seemed like they were getting some negative Imput by people who went on the cruise. As for the Cruise itself there seem to be no complaints there. Has the PWNA slipped in the last few years?

Hopefully Like Chris Detter stated awhile back that we can step up the PWNA a notch. I'm sure it can be done...........

Chris Detter

New member
Hey John,

Thanks for mentioning the Cleaner Times article.

They actually let me read it before it went to print. I approved it because I wanted everyone to know that our organization is wide open to honesty. No reason to hide anything. Plus it shows us (board members and members) that there are places that need fixin. We are in the process of fixing these things.

Also The PWNA has just completed the transition from the old mangement company to the new one, in fact I was able to go to Washington DC earlier this week and spent a lot of time with Jack Pitzer and his team. Before long we will be able to put many of the new things to work.

The Fall Technical seminar in Pittsburgh, Pa. is coming together nicely. We will have all three certification course offered just prior to the show. kitchen exhaust, wood restoration, & environmental certification as well. with testing offered immediately after the schools.
The new web site should be up and running in about a month, offering things like contractor location finder, chat rooms, mentoring programs, links to members sites. list of vendors who are joining the national discount program, possible even a store for selling used equipment etc. plus many other cool things. Plus the other good news is that our site will not be restricted to just PWNA members, we feel everyone should be able to get in. But I feel only members should be able to advertise there sevices on our site.

I can't wait till the Cleaner Times and Blastmaster do an article about the new PWNA after Pittsburgh I'am sure the organization will shine again I'll keep in touch.

Thanks again
Chris Detter President PWNA

David Saulque

Senior Moderator
Why would the PWNA site not be limited to members only? I would think that the member should have a say in the membership of the site.

If the site will be open to all -why even have a site? The old site was never cared for, why do they need a new site-that would look like this one? This bb is just fine why wast the money. You people should save your money -you are going to need it.


Clean County PW

Active member
For whatever reason Powerwashers on the West Coast are real down with the PWNA. They Continuously say negative comments such as Daves above this. Its to bad this negative energy can't be changed to a postive one where helpful Idea's can come out instead of "You people should save your money-you are going to need it."

Chris Detter, I for one am looking forward to the new changes that you and others in the PWNA are trying to implement. As soon as I retire from one of my jobs I plan on getting more involved with the PWNA to help it become the top notch Powerwashing organization that it can be.

If all goes well I plan on attending the fall Pittsburgh show and I also can't wait to see the articles in the Cleaner Times and the Blastmaster Mags about this convention.

I also appreciate that you keep us updated about the PWNA and that you spend the time to respond to some of our post here considering that your time must be pretty limited like alot of ours are.

One day I can see the West Coast Powerwashers being more involved with the PWNA in a positive way once some more improvements are implemented.

Keep up the good work.

David Saulque

Senior Moderator
Thanks Buddy for the positive response to my two part question.

Thanks for your time



Member Specialist
John T.

The main reason the West Coast seems down is most members are on the East Coast.

Some have asked the PWNA to open a West Coast branch but from what I understand the answer was there are not enough members for that.

Now if they came out this way and pushed membership out here and had more shows out here I feel things would change.

Keep in mind I am not saying anything bad about PWNA, but if you take a look at where the national headquarters is located, where most, not all but most board of directors live and where most shows are you will see the answer.

Yes they are having another show in Las Vegas and I plan to attend it member or not. I did enjoy the first one, I learned, I made friends and came away more knowledgeable.

I do believe Chris and Company want change, I also believe the old timers or/and founding members are going to be his biggest obstacle to change. Mike also wants things to change, to become more "current" to reflect how not only the members feel but the potential members, former members who might someday reconsider and join again.

Chris says it takes time, it does when some stonewall change, he needs to get the steamroller going full speed ahead and not worry if he runs over a few slower old timers in the process.

I can see he has done one major change and I feel that alone was a major huddle for him.

Replacing the old company with a new one. I truly hope this new one gets his hands and feet wet doing some work so he can relate to our business.


Beth & Rod

SR Wood Geek / Moderator
You know, I mentioned the PWNA in a article for BlastMaster a while back as well. It was not 100% favorable either, and we are members. Personally, I would be very skeptical of any review that is 100% favorable. Why? Because no organization is perfect, just as no person is either. There is always room for improvement in anything, regardless of if it is on a personal level or an organizational level.

I recently spoke to Chris at length on the phone, and I was very pleased to hear him request feedback, to want to know how members feel, to want to know what we want. I believe Chris wants to make things happen.

We voted, and I'll say this much.... We read all the requests for west coast representation. Well, we voted for one guy who is on the west coast. He made the board as I recall. Now I'll also say that in fairness to the PWNA, I would not feel that I would have a right to moan or complain if I were not actively participating and doing my share. Put your money where your mouth is. If you are not a member, fine. Don't be a member. But don't expect the PWNA to change for those who do not support the organization. Offer constructive ideas. Let them know you'll join if you see change. Don't wave your negativity loudly in their faces and condemn the efforts of the VOLUNTEERS.

Chris, I am waiting to hear about that meeting, and have not gotten the call we spoke about. Am very much looking forward to Pittsburgh.

Beth & Rod

:) :)

David Saulque

Senior Moderator
"Offer constructive ideas. Let them know you'll join if you see change. Don't wave your negativity loudly in their faces and condemn the efforts of the VOLUNTEERS. "

All that I was asking for was a answer to my question-granted I am not the most positive person for PWNA but I am a member in good standing and have a cert. with them. If I was not a member I would not complain.

My main question is this, Why do we need a national organization for this industry? Before the net, small concerns needed a venue for ideas and products. Today the net fills the gap and local trade groups fill the need for local input-i.e. insurance-workers comp and so on.

Delco should put a Trade Show on and invite there customers and charge and show off products and give show discounts and so on. That would hold true for the other trade concerns as well.

I seek a question-why should I reup or shipover?

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Don Yates

New member
I don't see Davids posts as being negitive,all I see is a PWNA Member asking a couple of legit questions and his posts are getting shot down or ignored instead of being answered,if I were to become a member I hope that I would not get that kind of treatment just becouse someone did not understand or agree with my questions and /or comments,
I have considered becoming a member for a few years,this may be the year that I go ahead and become a member but I would like to here some answers to Jon and Davids questions,I am not one of those"what am I going to get for my $250" peoples.
but I not impressed with how a member such as David seems to have such a hard time trying to get some answers.
I hope noone takes my comments the wrong way,as I am just speaking my mind and I may be missing something and if so I hope someone will fill me in,I do feel that becoming a member would be a great benifit to my company but I am waiting for some other things to become a lil' clearer.

Ron Musgraves

Exterior Restoration Specialist
Staff member
David & Beth,

I respected Beth’s post and I understand David’s concerns with the org. They are similar to mine. I don’t think she was targeting you David.

I also think Chris over looked or dodged your question because of past remarks. David you certainly have not been very positive in the past. (Please don’t take that wrong, only about the PWNA) It surprised me that you’re still member. I think you like me are looking at they actually might do something. Like myself this is probably there last stand. I’m trying to keep a positive outlook.

I need to say that having this open forum to ask question directly to the Board is a big step in the right direction. I also might ad that sometimes it takes more than one person to answer these posts. Mike ,Doc and Chris sometimes answer them collectively. That could be why we have not gotten and answer, it may be that simple.
What would be nice in the future is that Chris leave a special note saying that we will get and answer David give me a little time.

David, I have a lot of respect for your opinions and Views, you a no non-sense kind of guy. I like that about you, I always respect your opinions whether I agree with you or not. On this one they are thinking about your answer. Publicly you and me are their biggest trouble.

Beth, I respect your opinion and don’t think it was intended to be taken the way it came across. I know you hold the highest respect for volunteers and being a big one yourself motivated you to protect. I understand that questions can seem negative. Please note that David’s view of the PWNA goes way back and I’m not sure I would still be a member if I had the same record with them as he has. Mine only runs for a few years, David has been with them longer and really feels they serve no purpose. (Now I’m putting word in David’s Mouth.) Sorry….

I’m not going to be negative here but the Board members other than Chris Detter needs to realize that they have a problem. I feel some Board members feel that theirs nothing wrong with this org???? I have talked with several Board members and I feel that they think nothing is wrong… I think they should publicly come with and article in one of the magazines saying that we are trying to clean up the mess and start fresh. Then all sign the article or letter to its members and request for their help.

I’m committed to Chris and the PWNA. If Chris calls me to ask for something I will do it. I believe David would too. No one has called and that is disappointing. I truly believe that if this organization doesn’t start to use its membership to its full potential then it will not grow. That’s not being negative but the stone cold hard truth. If volunteer’s board members can’t take the heat then leave the Board. Sometimes this constructive (negative) criticism is what it takes to make changes.

Basically sometimes being negative can get changes made,,, Just do it like a pro..

Beth & Rod

SR Wood Geek / Moderator

My post was not aimed at David or anyone else in the thread, and actually I was inspired to write (to get on my soapbox) because very often those who are NOT members will bash in unconstructive ways. Those who are members SHOULD let their voices be heard. I'm right there with you. I agree David's questions deserve to be answered. I can't answer them...

Sorry for any confusion.

I challenge those who are not members, to put their money where their mouth is, should the organization make the changes they wish to see.

In short, when things progress, join.


Chris Detter

New member
The reason for opening up a pwna web site to non-members is for many reasons. One of the largest reasons is that when we start our national contractor finder listing customers commercial and residential will be able to find one in his area, plus find out is level of expertise, certified or not etc. many other reason that you will see after it's up. As far as waisting money so far no PWNA money has been spent. Mike Hinderliter has purchased a T-1 line
and other equipment (out of his pocket) and the site will be monitored by all for no charge.
You may not know it but one of the board members lives in Signal hill, Calif. John Hartley (24/7 Clean. John did say at one of the board meetings that for the most part people in Calif and west don't really join organizations, why who knows. I was born and raised in s. Calif, I didn't join things like that either, maybe boyscouts and baseball leagues. Whether any one wants to join an organization or not is purely a personal thing, We'd love to have as many members as we can, so thats kinda why we do things like offer certification programs, and web site assistance, the whole thing in a nutshell is that we would like pressure washers (especially young ones) to get as much good information as possible, so why not have the PWNA so those who need it join and support.
I support it because it helped my business grow considerably . Why not offer that to others, I belive that everything you get from an organization or learn from you should try and give back someday to those who need it.
Any way I'm rambling, so to close David We'd love to have you remain a member in the PWNA and maybe offer your services and advice on some of our programs in the future, but it's clearly your decision. Thanks for asking Chris Detter

Chris Detter

New member
Hey everybody,

I didn't even see that I was requested to answer David's question so fast til after I did. Sorry for the delay, But like many of you out there who have businesses to run (and this time of year is crazy.) I apoligize but my deck business is what puts food on my table. I'll try to stay in touch with this board at least twice a week. Thanks Chris

David Saulque

Senior Moderator
Thanks for giving of your time.



Member Specialist
Chris I take exception to your qoute below so kindly explain in much more detail my remarks that follow your quote.

One of the largest reasons is that when we start our national contractor finder listing customers commercial and residential will be able to find one in his area, plus find out is level of expertise, certified or not etc. many other reason that you will see after it's up.

My reasons are simple, just where does being certified prove that the contractor is better, follows the law and does not cut prices or over charge? Also it tends to say if your not certified by PWNA you're not really a good contractor since the PWNA does not recognize other certifications.

Sorry but just what do I need to be certified for? I know how to clean concrete, I have a reclaim system which will clean the water so I can reuse it, I have a vacuboom and all other things needed to do the job correctly so that 8 1/2 x 11 paper is not going to make me a better conctractor is it?

Book knowledge is good but hands on experience is better.

I have a good idea, not new but what if CETA and PWNA both teamed up for this and pushed it hard, all manufactures of pressure washers, retailers and wholesalers by law must explain the Clean Water Act and they would not be allowed to sale to anyone who has not been given a copy and SIGNED for it saying they are aware of the law?

Take Hydro Tek, they have salesman who go out selling their stuff to the very customers I do work for claiming they can save money doing it themselves, no mention about water runoff, about recapture in fact all they really want to do is SALE their products.

Now forcing everyone who is in this business to do reclaim would be far better then a certificate.

Sure the classes are good, I recall the ones I went to even if they were not certified classes. How many out there have certification in concrete cleaning, hood cleaning, waste water recovery, deck refinishing etc.?

Now would this national directory be for members only or open to all contractors? If members only it works against the customer finding the best company for the job at the right price.

That is how I see it.


Chris Detter

New member
Jon, Hi

I guess the best way to describe it would be to ask you, Do you offer anything different than anybody else, does your company do things any different than the other guy, why would mr. customer choose your company over another? What sets you apart?

Maybe it's because you have water reclaimation in place, maybe you understand environmental issues, and offer safer business practices, or maybe you work only at night and wear nicer t-shirts and have more polite and knowledgable staff, maybe your trucks are pink. Whatever your company offers that may be different or better is why a customer picks you.

For the same reason the PWNA offers 3 kinds of certification programs. You Jon, probably don't need to take one because you already know all the answers, but what about the company that doesn't know the answers, maybe they want to learn how to do various kinds of washing, maybe there new and don't have a clue as to environmental issues safety issues, what kind of equipment is out there etc. Where can they find these things, Hey, WOW! there's an organization that offers courses the PWNA. Sure they can go on a web site and ask questions, but maybe they would rather go to a school for a few days . It too is a personal choice.

About a national contractor finder, explaining expertise and certifations, thats actually a free way to get national advertising and promoting your business. It's simply another MEMBER benefit that might attract those who wish to attend.

Jon I don't expect everyone to agree with my wild ideas, Im just simply offering things as benefits to grow and improve the organization.

Your right and to my knowledge there is no flatwork certificaton program......should there be? maybe simply a chemical usage certification program (what chemicals work better on different surfaces)

Y'all have a great day! Have a Sun Brite day!
Chris Detter