Michael Cappa
Member
looking for a used cold water belt drive machine,
3000+ psi and 4+gpm.
3000+ psi and 4+gpm.
Looking for
- Thread starter Michael Cappa
- Start date
Michael Cappa
Member
I only want it for my helper to learn and help me rinse things. I am getting a 14gpm machine over the winter. gonna set it up with two guns so in actuality I will then kind of have two 7gpm machines and my current 5gpm machine.
Clean County PW
Active member
Extreme,
What size engine do you need to run a 14gpm PW?? What size water tank are you going to carry when using that PW??
I thought about going with a high gpm machine awhile back but instead I settle on my 2 hot water PW rated @5gpm only because I don't need to carry to much water for each one when in use. I have a 300 gallon water tank for one powerwasher and a 460 gallon tank for the other one. I like the fact that I can hook to a water supply at a store and pretty much have enough gpm coming out of that to run my machines.
Of course I can't argue the cleaning power of a 14gpm Powerwasher.
What size engine do you need to run a 14gpm PW?? What size water tank are you going to carry when using that PW??
I thought about going with a high gpm machine awhile back but instead I settle on my 2 hot water PW rated @5gpm only because I don't need to carry to much water for each one when in use. I have a 300 gallon water tank for one powerwasher and a 460 gallon tank for the other one. I like the fact that I can hook to a water supply at a store and pretty much have enough gpm coming out of that to run my machines.
Of course I can't argue the cleaning power of a 14gpm Powerwasher.
Michael Cappa
Member
not sure of the engine size. I have 550 gallon tank capacity. A friend of mine built this setup and gave me a fantastic price that I just can't pass up. I will find out the engine size and let you know.
h2obouy777
Member
850-243-6235 Trading Post FWB Florida
It is a long way from home but I just saw one in there. Looked like it was in good shape. Anyway he may ship and it may be worth looking into. He will work with you on prices. Seemed like he was asking $700.00. 13 Hp belt driven. 4gpm Cat I think. Hope this helps.- Jeremy
John 3:16 " For God so love the world he gave His only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not parish but have eternal life."
It is a long way from home but I just saw one in there. Looked like it was in good shape. Anyway he may ship and it may be worth looking into. He will work with you on prices. Seemed like he was asking $700.00. 13 Hp belt driven. 4gpm Cat I think. Hope this helps.- Jeremy
John 3:16 " For God so love the world he gave His only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not parish but have eternal life."
Michael
New member
14 GPM would require a...
10 hp Electric motor @ 1000 PSI
20 hp Electric motor @ 2000 PSI
30 hp Electric motor @ 3000 PSI
35 hp Electric motor @ 3500 PSI
There are few pumps that supply that with the best in this range being the Cat.
Note I only put up ELECTRIC motor horsepower figures. The 'rule of thumb' used by most manufacturers is to take that number and multiply by 1.5 for gasoline engines, therefore...
15 hp
30 hp
45 hp
52.5 hp
Even if you use the more optomistic formula assuming theoretical efficiencies then you will still need from 13 hp up to 45 hp.
Diesel engines will range from 10 hp up to 36 hp.
Unless you are using both guns all the time you will also be bypassing up to 7 GPM when either is closed; this will put a lot of demand on the unloader and may cause excessive pump head temperatures.
Assuminig an 80% tank capacity utilization you will have a running time of from 31 minutes to 63 minutes. Assuming you can get a 4 GPM supply to the tank then you will end up with from 44 minutes to 147 minutes of run time before you run a risk of starving the pump.
550 gallons of water will weigh 4,620# plus the weight of the tank and a 14 GPM pump from Cat (model 3517) will weigh 152# without anything else attached. So weight distribution may be a problem too.
NOT wanting to discourage you but just trying to point out the numbers.
Also on average a 10 GPM unit is approximately twice the cost of a 5 GPM unit. If you lose one 10 GPM pump you lose both guns also 10 GPM pump/unloader/gun parts are all more expensive; the same will apply to larger flow rates.
So it may be a great price but if it cannot be used efficiently then it does not really matter.
Hope this helps? Cheers.
10 hp Electric motor @ 1000 PSI
20 hp Electric motor @ 2000 PSI
30 hp Electric motor @ 3000 PSI
35 hp Electric motor @ 3500 PSI
There are few pumps that supply that with the best in this range being the Cat.
Note I only put up ELECTRIC motor horsepower figures. The 'rule of thumb' used by most manufacturers is to take that number and multiply by 1.5 for gasoline engines, therefore...
15 hp
30 hp
45 hp
52.5 hp
Even if you use the more optomistic formula assuming theoretical efficiencies then you will still need from 13 hp up to 45 hp.
Diesel engines will range from 10 hp up to 36 hp.
Unless you are using both guns all the time you will also be bypassing up to 7 GPM when either is closed; this will put a lot of demand on the unloader and may cause excessive pump head temperatures.
Assuminig an 80% tank capacity utilization you will have a running time of from 31 minutes to 63 minutes. Assuming you can get a 4 GPM supply to the tank then you will end up with from 44 minutes to 147 minutes of run time before you run a risk of starving the pump.
550 gallons of water will weigh 4,620# plus the weight of the tank and a 14 GPM pump from Cat (model 3517) will weigh 152# without anything else attached. So weight distribution may be a problem too.
NOT wanting to discourage you but just trying to point out the numbers.
Also on average a 10 GPM unit is approximately twice the cost of a 5 GPM unit. If you lose one 10 GPM pump you lose both guns also 10 GPM pump/unloader/gun parts are all more expensive; the same will apply to larger flow rates.
So it may be a great price but if it cannot be used efficiently then it does not really matter.
Hope this helps? Cheers.
Michael Cappa
Member
Mike, I understand completly, I will run my bypass back to the tank so I don't think there is a problem there. It is a cat pump. I will only be using this machine for commercial jobs so both guns(surfacers) will be used at the same time, or at least 90% of the time. Any other work, ie residential or light commercial, I will use the machine I have now, alkota, 5 at 3000. I am getting such a good price I can't pass it up. I have also found very good prices on machines, reclaim units, sprayers, and safety equip, gloves, masks hats, shields, boots and clothing. I will be posting prices over the next few days. just for example, a new box of work gloves for if I remember correctly, $20.00. I found great prices and will pass them on to everyone here. I know I will get some manufacturers mad, but hey, we all need to save a buck when we can.
Clean County PW
Active member
Extreme,
Let the cat out of the bag and tell us how much your going to pay for that 14gpm Powerwasher if its alright to do so. Also wouldn't the burner also have to be bigger to heat this large quanity or water that will pass thru it??
If I had to guess I would say that a Powerwashers of this magnitude would have to be $10,000-$15,000 new.
Let the cat out of the bag and tell us how much your going to pay for that 14gpm Powerwasher if its alright to do so. Also wouldn't the burner also have to be bigger to heat this large quanity or water that will pass thru it??
If I had to guess I would say that a Powerwashers of this magnitude would have to be $10,000-$15,000 new.
Michael Cappa
Member
I will have two seperate burners on the system. I will post what I paid after I get it.
Michael
New member
There is a 'Rule of Thumb' that says you need 100,000 BTU to raise 1 GPM 140 degrees.
Therefore to get a 140 degree heat rise for 14 GPM you will need something in the neighbourhood of 1.4 MILLION BTU to get hot water. 700,000 BTU will give you ~ 70 degree heat rise at 14 GPM or less.
To get 1.4 MILLION BTU in an oil-fired burner you would need up to 5 or more GPH of fuel input depending on the fuel pressure and coil design. Or to put it another way you would get <3 hours of running time from 16 gallon supply. Also you are dealing with a lot of stack/ventilation requirements.
Again, I am NOT trying to discourage you but even the famous David Olson only goes to 10 GPM and he has a 1 million BTU LP burner along with a 35kW genset to run things. Your mileage may vary.
On the surface big flow looks like a really good idea but it is fraught with hidden costs that you may not be aware of. There is a practical upper limit for both flow and pressure for the vast majority of cleaning applications; without getting into specialized situations.
According to the Cat Pump price list of 2000 the 3517 pump is ~$6,000 list.
If you paid anything less than that then you have a heck of a deal because that does not inlcude unloader, rails, belts, pulleys and power source.
Hope this helps? Cheers.
Therefore to get a 140 degree heat rise for 14 GPM you will need something in the neighbourhood of 1.4 MILLION BTU to get hot water. 700,000 BTU will give you ~ 70 degree heat rise at 14 GPM or less.
To get 1.4 MILLION BTU in an oil-fired burner you would need up to 5 or more GPH of fuel input depending on the fuel pressure and coil design. Or to put it another way you would get <3 hours of running time from 16 gallon supply. Also you are dealing with a lot of stack/ventilation requirements.
Again, I am NOT trying to discourage you but even the famous David Olson only goes to 10 GPM and he has a 1 million BTU LP burner along with a 35kW genset to run things. Your mileage may vary.
On the surface big flow looks like a really good idea but it is fraught with hidden costs that you may not be aware of. There is a practical upper limit for both flow and pressure for the vast majority of cleaning applications; without getting into specialized situations.
According to the Cat Pump price list of 2000 the 3517 pump is ~$6,000 list.
If you paid anything less than that then you have a heck of a deal because that does not inlcude unloader, rails, belts, pulleys and power source.
Hope this helps? Cheers.
Last edited:
Dave Olson
Workin North of 60
Hi Guys,
Michael is the Famous one; I’m just a guy that cleans a lot of stuff!!
Here is a picture of the fluid end on our primary pump. We are currently using 1-1/4" plungers. We have Teflon packing so running hot is not a problem. We use a 20 hp 220 3-phase electric motor and with the large flywheel the pump runs at only 485 rpm. This is a Duplex rather than a Triplex so we must run a pulsation dampener.
The last time I replaced the fluid end (2-1/2 years ago) it cost $3,500. This was only the head not any plumbing or the power end of the pump. Maintenance cost on this pump is about $200 per year. Wheatley makes this pump.
Note the large supply line coming in from the left side. This comes from a surge tank that is located above the inlet of the pump.
The handle on the right is how we "Dial Up" our pressure. It is a Baird By-Pass Relief Valve. We generally start up the pump under no load and then bring it up to the pressure we want to run. We control the volume that we use by selecting a certain tip.
All water that is not used out our wands is returned to the surge tank. We supply the surge tank (about 40 gallons) using an impeller pump (15-18 gpm)(3 hp 220 single phase) from our 1000-gallon supply tank.
Dave Olson
Michael is the Famous one; I’m just a guy that cleans a lot of stuff!!
Here is a picture of the fluid end on our primary pump. We are currently using 1-1/4" plungers. We have Teflon packing so running hot is not a problem. We use a 20 hp 220 3-phase electric motor and with the large flywheel the pump runs at only 485 rpm. This is a Duplex rather than a Triplex so we must run a pulsation dampener.
The last time I replaced the fluid end (2-1/2 years ago) it cost $3,500. This was only the head not any plumbing or the power end of the pump. Maintenance cost on this pump is about $200 per year. Wheatley makes this pump.
Note the large supply line coming in from the left side. This comes from a surge tank that is located above the inlet of the pump.
The handle on the right is how we "Dial Up" our pressure. It is a Baird By-Pass Relief Valve. We generally start up the pump under no load and then bring it up to the pressure we want to run. We control the volume that we use by selecting a certain tip.
All water that is not used out our wands is returned to the surge tank. We supply the surge tank (about 40 gallons) using an impeller pump (15-18 gpm)(3 hp 220 single phase) from our 1000-gallon supply tank.
Dave Olson
