I'm not understanding this bid.

"Red" · Jul 10, 2013

The city currently has a bid open to clean buses (public transportation). In their bid pack they state:

"Perform services request on approximately 43 buses per night, Monday thru Friday 6pm - 9:30pm, Saturday 4:30pm – 7:00pm."

If my calculations are correct, that's less than 5 minutes per bus on the week days and around 3.5 minutes per bus on Saturday.

How many employees would it take to accomplish this feat? The job requirements resemble that of a $200 detail job on a Porsche. The contractor has to supply everything including massive amounts of insurance, workers comp, uniforms... (huge list).

The max bid is $100,000 per year. Is it even possible to make money doing this?

Steven Rowlett · Jul 10, 2013

I really don't think they can be washed in that time frame with one crew. I had a company at a land fill tell me how a man and woman were washing a certain amount of trucks on the weekend and waiting on the trucks to come in one at a time. If that was the case I asked why they wanted to change. I knew that was bs on them getting it done. They wanted me to wait around all day for the trucks to return. These companies will tell you anything thinking you will take the bait. On the money it translates to $100,000.00 divided by 4,730 washes a year. That is $36.63 per bus. I feel that is low and the time frame per bus is too short. Bottom line, with my method you would need two rigs with four people to get this done in my opinion.

Christopher · Jul 10, 2013

Have you gone by there and talked to the bus people? Ask them how the current contractor is doing them, are they doing a good job, why is the bid going out...is it that time or are they not doing a good job, etc....... They will talk to you about everything but price as they probably don't know what is being paid out but the bus people (mechanics or drivers or other people in that dept.) should be able to tell you about the situation for putting in a bid, it is not against the rules of the bid to find out more information, just don't ask about pricing or other specifics.

It is possible to do that fleet in that amount of time, just takes the right equipment, right people and experience, you cannot expect people that don't have experience washing high volumes of vehicles to go there and start washing fast and expecting a good job, it can be done but you have to have some experience in this before you attemp another contract or customer. Kind of like washing cars on a car lot, you cannot expect to go there with a bucket and brush and do 300 to 500 cars on a lot that way, you have to be efficient, have good equipment, know what you are doing, have the right game plan and good detergents for the task as all soaps are not made the same, most are not good quality and have the right knowledge of how to use them properly on that certain account.

Ask the bus people what they are looking for as for the wash, I am certain they are not looking for a detail job or even close to it, probably a wash to keep them clean daily which is totally different from what detailers do but kind of similar to what truck wash guys do every day. Just depends on what the bus people are looking for. Probably nobody on the forums knows but the bus people will know because they are paying for the job to be done.

Good luck.

"Red" · Jul 10, 2013

This is my math, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

((6 days * 52 weeks) * 43 buses) = 13,416 [washes/yr]

$100,000 / 13,416 = $7.45 per wash.

There are those holidays and such that wouldn't be counted, but even so...

"Red" · Jul 10, 2013

A. Services to Be Provided By the Selected Contractor: The Contractor shall:

(a) Perform services request on approximately 43 buses per night, Monday thru Friday 6pm -9:30pm, Saturday 4:30pm – 7:00pm.

(b) Provide adequate staff and cleaning materials necessary to perform the cleaning services.

(c) Perform the requested services in various working environments consisting of, but not limited to, exposure to all weather conditions; (intense heat, rain, cold, and dust)

(d) Turn in all lost and found articles to the District’s Project Manager or to a specified designee, office or location.

(e) Be versed in the handling of hazardous waste and “sharps” (meaning needles, razors or scissors), Biohazard types of materials encompassing blood, feces, vomit, spit, urine etc.

(f) Supply all cleaning equipment, supplies and materials (including but not limited to, trash bags, gloves, cleaners, soap, brushes, mops, rags, scrapers, squeegees, towels, hose nozzles, etc.) needed to accomplish cleaning duties.
o Product list with MSDS sheets must be submitted with offer
o The selected vendor shall bring and remove supplies daily as needed.
o The District will not provide onsite storage of supplies.

(g) Clean the inside of all windows and mirrors, (such that they are streak free)

(h) Ensure that all aisles and area under seats are free of all debris, and dust.

(i) Damp mop floors daily, or as directed.

(j) Ensure all trash receptacles are empty and clean.

(k) Wipe down hand rails and driver steering wheel with antiseptic cleaner, cleaning dash board area.

(l) Provide a site supervisor; the site supervisor shall be literate and fluent in the English language, able to read chemical labels, job instructions, signs and converse with District personnel.

(m) Provide a contact for the District in case of an emergency

Maintain daily service log of vehicles cleaned and status for District review as shown in Section 2.5

(o) Remove graffiti from all surfaces

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"Red" · Jul 10, 2013

Christopher said:
Have you gone by there and talked to the bus people?

Bidding is closed, but the contractor hasn't been selected yet. I was just researching the idea.

greg/sd · Jul 10, 2013

That sounds to me like an interior clean. 100,000 doesn't sound like a reasonable price to me but Im sure someone will do it for less than that.

rsweeper · Jul 10, 2013

First off, Welcome to the world of working with city's.

City and Gov work always require you to have more insurance. And why would you not have workers comp to begin with? Uniforms are simple, ever heard of company t shirts?

And of course the contractor would have to supply all materials needed, they didnt ask for a labor only bid.

Now to move forward,, You stated that they have 43 buses, and stated that you are to perform services request on them,,,,,does not mean that you will have to work on all 43 per night. You need to find out from them how many service requests are done per night on the norm. You may find that it is maybe 10 or ?
You can also ask them and they must tell you ( public record) who the old contractor was, what they were charging, how may they were doing on average per night etc.

Im also sure that there max bid is what they are hoping for. Dosent mean that they will get it. If it is more they might have to have a special meeting to get the contract approved. Happens all the time and all kinds of city contracts. Plus again, What are they currently paying? Could be that amount or more or less, could also maybe not include all 43 buses. When doing city work you need to ask questions and not be affarid to ask them, you need to make sure you cover your butt. And also dont cut your own head off,,,,,if the numbers dont work out for you to make money,,,,the job is not worth it,,,,period.

You also need to verfiy termination clauses, if you quit or are terminated would you be responsible for any costs in them hiring a replacement contractor. Meaning as a example,,,,,your bid was the 100,000 you quit or they fire you,,,,there next bid is 125,000,,,,,you are now required to pay, or your performance bond is requirred to pay the 25,000 difference. It happens, make sure you read your contract real good. You would not want to do a job of the cheap and then be stuck with a real big bill.

Hope this helps

"Red" · Jul 10, 2013

greg/sd said:
That sounds to me like an interior clean. 100,000 doesn't sound like a reasonable price to me but Im sure someone will do it for less than that.

I've been tossing that around too. After a little more research I found that they have a bus wash on site. That would definitely change the numbers around.

"Red" · Jul 10, 2013

rsweeper said:
First off, Welcome to the world of working with city's.

City and Gov work always require you to have more insurance. And why would you not have workers comp to begin with? Uniforms are simple, ever heard of company t shirts?

And of course the contractor would have to supply all materials needed, they didnt ask for a labor only bid.

Yeah, I get all that, but they want the guys to look presentable too ... does that mean they need to take baths too? Sheesssh (j/k)

rsweeper said:
Now to move forward,, You stated that they have 43 buses, and stated that you are to perform services request on them,,,,,does not mean that you will have to work on all 43 per night.

Item (a) states 43 buses per night.

I won't be pursueing the bid, I was just curious if it would be something I would consider doing in the future.

Christopher · Jul 10, 2013

Great info Ed.

All the info is not known until you talk to the bus people, until then it is just speculation.

After you talk to the bus people you will know exactly what they want and the specs of the job.

I would also find out about the winning bidder last year and what they were paid and if the contract ended or if they got fired for the bid to be put out again, this will give you some interesting information.

I would not do an interior and exterior clean for that amount but again, until you talk to the bus people, it might be less buses as some will be in the shop being repaired or down with bad engines or transmissions, etc....

Even though it is closed, they still have to give you the last year's winning bid info, that will be interesting to see along with the info from the bus people to see how many buses will actually be cleaned each nite, all of this will put the picture together so you can see what is really wanted/required.

This info will not only help you but others here that are interested in placing similar bids out there. If you can, get the info and post it here so it can be discussed further, you never know, you might want to bid on it next year and you might be able to go and watch them from a distance to see how efficient they are at what they do.

Steven Rowlett · Jul 10, 2013

"Red" said:
This is my math, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

((6 days * 52 weeks) * 43 buses) = 13,416 [washes/yr]

$100,000 / 13,416 = $7.45 per wash.

There are those holidays and such that wouldn't be counted, but even so...

I stand corrected on the math, you are correct Red. Still not quite up to speed since the surgery.

clarkservices · Jul 10, 2013

Red- Like Ed implied, City work or this type of work, the money is made in time,machinery, and capable man power. I would assume they are looking for a rinse and if done with DI water and a 3 man team this would make money at 100k. The math to me, just say you pay your guys $20 hr x3hrs= $60hr x3 work hours = $180 dollars a night. If you wash 43 buses a night @ 7.45 each thats $320.35 leaves you $140 for taxes,insurance, overhead,etc.... PER NIGHT 7 NIGHTS A WEEK

If you had fill within distance and could add to this service I think it's money well made. I would do it in a heart beat in my area. Its not the one job in commercial, its the route and how much margin you can squeeze. If I can make 10% at the end of the year and not physically work and have 10 other contracts just like this, I make 100k.

This will never make money standing alone, but if your smart and make it your cornerstone and build off of it, this will produce in the future. Many here may disagree but at the end of the day profit is profit. It's just how much profit you need to say whats succesful.

junker1 · Jul 10, 2013

Christopher said:
Great info Ed.

All the info is not known until you talk to the bus people, until then it is just speculation.

After you talk to the bus people you will know exactly what they want and the specs of the job.

I would also find out about the winning bidder last year and what they were paid and if the contract ended or if they got fired for the bid to be put out again, this will give you some interesting information.

I would not do an interior and exterior clean for that amount but again, until you talk to the bus people, it might be less buses as some will be in the shop being repaired or down with bad engines or transmissions, etc....

Even though it is closed, they still have to give you the last year's winning bid info, that will be interesting to see along with the info from the bus people to see how many buses will actually be cleaned each nite, all of this will put the picture together so you can see what is really wanted/required.

This info will not only help you but others here that are interested in placing similar bids out there. If you can, get the info and post it here so it can be discussed further, you never know, you might want to bid on it next year and you might be able to go and watch them from a distance to see how efficient they are at what they do.

seems one really needs to do their homework when it comes to washing fleets. Need to find their expectation before you can even attempt to make a bid I would think.

Guy Blackmon · Jul 10, 2013

I'm sure there's a way to structure this so it "May" be profitable.....there are just so many other ways of "definitely" being more profitable.

This is a job for Fleetwash!

4150willys · Jul 11, 2013

My understanding of this bid is it is for interior cleaning only. I think you said they have an on site vehicle wash.

Patrick Feehan
Tri-County Pressure Washing
Toledo, Ohio 43613

I'm not understanding this bid.

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