Hey Bryan, Put Your Miner's Hat On
- Thread starter mbryan
- Start date
Grant
Administrator
A major part of the problem in the Southern California area is that there are so many different AHJ's as a result of so many cities. Los Angeles City and Los Angeles County are the largest but there are hundreds of different cities that are seperate from them.
We have been doing educational seminars with the various Fire Prevention Officers Associations that we are members of, and have also tried to include the insurance industry. It is a slow process but educating the AHJ's is the only way it will happen. It is getting better with the AHJ's having a better understanding of what we do, but waiting for them to enforce the codes may take a looonnnnggggg time.
We have been doing educational seminars with the various Fire Prevention Officers Associations that we are members of, and have also tried to include the insurance industry. It is a slow process but educating the AHJ's is the only way it will happen. It is getting better with the AHJ's having a better understanding of what we do, but waiting for them to enforce the codes may take a looonnnnggggg time.
dodsonish
Grease Police President
Sounds like a pretty big work to accomplish. The St. Louis area isn't near the size of L.A., but is similar in the small cities and townships, or AHJ's. Everyone seems to understand the 6 mo minimum and most restaurants realize the importance of frequent cleanings.
Insurance companies seem to be the biggest enforcer here. AHJ's seem to see a clean inside hood and call it ok, no matter what frequency they have it cleaned. But insurance companies are requiring a minimum of 6 mo and service agreement or contracts in most areas and even enforcing current NFPA 96 standard in some areas.
I've found that even educating the restaurant owners of the potential fire hazzard and possible insurance loss is a good motivator.
How do the insurance companies in your area enforce anything, or do they?
Insurance companies seem to be the biggest enforcer here. AHJ's seem to see a clean inside hood and call it ok, no matter what frequency they have it cleaned. But insurance companies are requiring a minimum of 6 mo and service agreement or contracts in most areas and even enforcing current NFPA 96 standard in some areas.
I've found that even educating the restaurant owners of the potential fire hazzard and possible insurance loss is a good motivator.
How do the insurance companies in your area enforce anything, or do they?
Grant
Administrator
Different insurance companies say different things to different customers ranging from premium increase to cancelled policy to non-renew status. I usually don't pay much attention to the insurance companies threat to the restaurant, I just grin when the restaurant calls and wants it done yesterday after we have been calling for an appointment for four months.
dodsonish
Grease Police President
mbryan said:
We may want it clean and it maybe can be cleaned, with proper access and time to do a little scraping. But are the restaurants willing to pay for the extra work and time it takes to access these "inaccesible areas"? I've found that most people cringe at the thought of staying a little longer and paying a little more for the job to be done right. You can train every hood cleaner in this country, but are you gonna pay them to stay longer for free? If you raise the price they'll get the guy who does it cheaper.
I think the best way to solve this problem is to educate the AHJ's and insurance companies. These are the people who can make a difference. We may recommend something, but they can enforce it.
It may be a load of crap, but as long as these "illegitimate cleaners" are out there doing "illegitimate work" these "inaccesible areas" are going to exsist. This is what we have to work with until a better system is in place.
Phil Ackland
KEC Expert
Matt
Can you give me a bit of background on the last two pictures you posted (this one and the Caver)?
They will be making the trip to Baltimore in Nov.
Can you give me a bit of background on the last two pictures you posted (this one and the Caver)?
They will be making the trip to Baltimore in Nov.
I have to agree with the unqualified,untrained employees sent to clean hoods.I have owned two restaurants, a pizza place and a chicken,rib and seafood place.I used probably five different hood cleaning services (in NJ.) between the two of them and always talked to someone professional on the phone ,but they sent out very poorly trained crews.One company sent five guys ,four looked extremely hung over and were tripping over things ,one almost fell off the roof,and one did fall off a step ladder .They left puddles of water under the equipment,pressure washed the filters on the sidewalk in front of the store and took almost four hours to clean one 20'hood with a one story vertical duct that was cleaned three months previous.One company sent two guys who spent two hours trying to access the roof,because they left their ladder back at the shop.the total time they took on a 12' hood was over 4 hours,same thing water everywhere ,their "supervisor " a 350lb fat slob came in when they were there over three hours and started screaming and cursing at the top of his lungs,how they should have been on their next job already,and ''just finish this F!#*$#G place already".All this in front of me and my employees.I quickly told him to get the F#!@ out of my restaurant and don't ever step foot in it ever again.I actually felt sorry for the two employees,two spanish guys who were only cleaning hoods for a couple of weeks.I paid the bill got the sticker on the hood,which quite frankly is all the restaurant owner really cares about,this code that code, this certification ,that organization means a lot more to you ,than them,I know I was one of them and know many restaurant owners personally.The sticker means their ass is covered.I am primarily speaking from a private owners perspective,not a franchisee or corporate owned restaurant.I know finding and hiring and retaining good people is extremely hard,but with the easy access into this business in most areas,and the restaurant owners perception as" just some pain in the butt expense,once or twice a year"and any type of educating by you is just some sales pitch to get deeper into their wallet .The only way to truly professionalize this industry is tougher enforcement by insurance companies,fire inspectors,and property management companies and to have licensing and certifications to weed out the joe blows with their cousin larrys borrowed 20 year old steam jenny in the back of their station wagon,with a fresh batch of just printed up hood stickers who will "clean any hood for $150....CASH ONLY!".I know I am just echoing the thoughts of many on this board,just thougt I would give you someones perspective who was on the other side of the coin.I for one like the least amount of government intrusion into my life,but in the case of this industry it is the only way to bring it up to the level that it should be .
One other thing,when I sold the chicken and rib place,to a chinese guy I specifically told him which companies not to use,but he called the company with the hung over guys and they accidently set the fire suppresion system off on a friday morning.The system was a dry chem system which covered the whole store shutting it down for the day.He called them and told them he was sueing them and they settled for $2500,plus the cost of clean up.He called me and told me what happened and I asked him why he used them when I told him not to ,and he said
"They give me most cheapest price!!"
TAKE CARE
JIM
One other thing,when I sold the chicken and rib place,to a chinese guy I specifically told him which companies not to use,but he called the company with the hung over guys and they accidently set the fire suppresion system off on a friday morning.The system was a dry chem system which covered the whole store shutting it down for the day.He called them and told them he was sueing them and they settled for $2500,plus the cost of clean up.He called me and told me what happened and I asked him why he used them when I told him not to ,and he said
"They give me most cheapest price!!"
TAKE CARE
JIM
Last edited:
indiana jones
Member
Safe Clean:
You are right on- those falling down drunk guys are everywhere, not just NJ. There is definitely a market for schlock in this business, I am beginning to wonder if the grease in the ducts is an actual fire hazard, due to the fact that Bryan's restaurants are still standing.
It's good to read a former restaurant owners perspective on "greasers" - I assume you are one now, too?
You have echoed my exact sentiments from a 9/26/03 post:
For the sake of discussion - to contractors - a good job is clean to the bare metal, "clean inside and out, top to bottom."
That's not what we find is on the customer's mind. The customers' complaint is usually something like - "they left some grease in the (nearby) sink". Even if you didn't use it."We had to rinse the mop-don't you people have your own." After polishing the hood,"whatever you people put on the hood - it looks greasy." There are plenty more! We could make a list. The customer quite frankly couldn't care less how clean his fan blades are, how shiny his ducts are-he ain't going to look behind those filters because like the fire inspector he doesn't want to risk getting grease on his fingers.
What occurs to me is the rag and taggers are giving the customer what he wants. A cleaner hood, little mess and it dosen't take a long time plus the all important hood sticker and the price is right!
Those pictures that Bryan in LA shows are awesome - to us. The restaurant figures( A), so what-just clean it. and (B) if I listened to you hood cleaners and had the exhaust system cleaned every 6 months instead of every 10 years - I'd be broke.
You ever do a job extra special, (lost money on it) cleaned so well that their mother would be proud only to hear, "if you guys were only a little cheaper - I'd call you more often."
Best of luck in your "New" career.
You are right on- those falling down drunk guys are everywhere, not just NJ. There is definitely a market for schlock in this business, I am beginning to wonder if the grease in the ducts is an actual fire hazard, due to the fact that Bryan's restaurants are still standing.
It's good to read a former restaurant owners perspective on "greasers" - I assume you are one now, too?
You have echoed my exact sentiments from a 9/26/03 post:
For the sake of discussion - to contractors - a good job is clean to the bare metal, "clean inside and out, top to bottom."
That's not what we find is on the customer's mind. The customers' complaint is usually something like - "they left some grease in the (nearby) sink". Even if you didn't use it."We had to rinse the mop-don't you people have your own." After polishing the hood,"whatever you people put on the hood - it looks greasy." There are plenty more! We could make a list. The customer quite frankly couldn't care less how clean his fan blades are, how shiny his ducts are-he ain't going to look behind those filters because like the fire inspector he doesn't want to risk getting grease on his fingers.
What occurs to me is the rag and taggers are giving the customer what he wants. A cleaner hood, little mess and it dosen't take a long time plus the all important hood sticker and the price is right!
Those pictures that Bryan in LA shows are awesome - to us. The restaurant figures( A), so what-just clean it. and (B) if I listened to you hood cleaners and had the exhaust system cleaned every 6 months instead of every 10 years - I'd be broke.
You ever do a job extra special, (lost money on it) cleaned so well that their mother would be proud only to hear, "if you guys were only a little cheaper - I'd call you more often."
Best of luck in your "New" career.