Filling Another Gap,...Maybe?

814jeffw

Active member
I have been considering something I know others have done in the past,.and I think some still do. Except I'm gonna add a twist to it via my remote unit.

I've seen many talk about force feeding a downstream injector to get a stronger concentration,..especially with 8-10 GPM. I never had much interest in the topic until now.

I bought an Udor 10 GPM pump to replace my 8 GPM pressure washer pump,...and I am a little worried about my DS rates for those tougher mold jobs. I know I can drop down to even a 2-3 GPM soap injector,..but that is really gonna choke my flow,..but even at that I don't think I'd need it all that often. But still an option.

There are times when spraying concrete or really bad siding or dryvit and I need a little stronger mix,..and 10 GPM and DS'ing may not be the best choice,..and I have resorted to the roof rig for certain jobs in the past..but as I said I'm having another look into force feeding the injector. I didn't realize they actually made units just for this,...or at least they did. And, looking through old threads I see it's been discussed and done for years.

I never had much interest due to not having any real issue,..but with 10 GPM I am gonna get it together and have it as at least an option for "Those" jobs.

I am going to use a 1 GPM pump and place it between the remote unit and the SH tank,...and I am going to wire it into the remote unit so the 12V pump will be on when the remote solenoid is open,..when the solenoid is closed.the pump will be off. Theoretically,..shoving 1 GPM into the line will give a 1:10,..and that should fill that gap I'm looking for. I know other guys were using 2 GPM and more but I don't think that's necessary for what I'm trying to do. Some of the guys were talking about being able to DS roofs by force feeding the injector. Well,..I don't really want to run the strong a mix through my expensive HP hose,.that isn't made to handle these percentages. Interesting though none the less.

I am actually gonna tie it into the injector feed line so I can use it when necessary and be able to use the soap injector as normal when the "forced injection" isn't needed. But want to be able to simply turn a valve to utilize it when necessary. I'll just have the pump on switch so it can be controlled by the remote only when I want it to.

Just another way to fine tune my application methods.

I was getting 1:17 ratio by regular DS'ing,..if I can actually get 1:10,..that will be quite a jump,..and be able to use one hose for soaping and rinsing, ,..and be remote controlled to boot.

I think the solenoid when closed will keep the 12V pump primed,..and even at that,.the soap injector itself will still be pulling, and that should also help with any priming issues.

Jeff
 
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clean2be

New member
Hey Jeff, what was the model of the long range remote controller you had stated that goes through homes to shut off the dema valve?

Mike
 

Christopher

Moderator
Sounds like an interesting idea.

Hope it works for you.

It would be great for those stubborn mold and algae jobs if it did like what you want it to.
 

clean2be

New member
If you're going to tie it into the injector line with a tee, you will need a check ball on the injectors filter/strainer. Otherwise, you will pump chem mix back into the tank.

Mike
 

Ralph Q

New member
I have been considering something I know others have done in the past,.and I think some still do. Except I'm gonna add a twist to it via my remote unit.

I've seen many talk about force feeding a downstream injector to get a stronger concentration,..especially with 8-10 GPM. I never had much interest in the topic until now.

I bought an Udor 10 GPM pump to replace my 8 GPM pressure washer pump,...and I am a little worried about my DS rates for those tougher mold jobs. I know I can drop down to even a 2-3 GPM soap injector,..but that is really gonna choke my flow,..but even at that I don't think I'd need it all that often. But still an option.

There are times when spraying concrete or really bad siding or dryvit and I need a little stronger mix,..and 10 GPM and DS'ing may not be the best choice,..and I have resorted to the roof rig for certain jobs in the past..but as I said I'm having another look into force feeding the injector. I didn't realize they actually made units just for this,...or at least they did. And, looking through old threads I see it's been discussed and done for years.

I never had much interest due to not having any real issue,..but with 10 GPM I am gonna get it together and have it as at least an option for "Those" jobs.

I am going to use a 1 GPM pump and place it between the remote unit and the SH tank,...and I am going to wire it into the remote unit so the 12V pump will be on when the remote solenoid is open,..when the solenoid is closed.the pump will be off. Theoretically,..shoving 1 GPM into the line will give a 1:10,..and that should fill that gap I'm looking for. I know other guys were using 2 GPM and more but I don't think that's necessary for what I'm trying to do. Some of the guys were talking about being able to DS roofs by force feeding the injector. Well,..I don't really want to run the strong a mix through my expensive HP hose,.that isn't made to handle these percentages. Interesting though none the less.

I am actually gonna tie it into the injector feed line so I can use it when necessary and be able to use the soap injector as normal when the "forced injection" isn't needed. But want to be able to simply turn a valve to utilize it when necessary. I'll just have the pump on switch so it can be controlled by the remote only when I want it to.

Just another way to fine tune my application methods.

I was getting 1:17 ratio by regular DS'ing,..if I can actually get 1:10,..that will be quite a jump,..and be able to use one hose for soaping and rinsing, ,..and be remote controlled to boot.

I think the solenoid when closed will keep the 12V pump primed,..and even at that,.the soap injector itself will still be pulling, and that should also help with any priming issues.

Jeff
it will be more than 1:10 because with your injector you lose some flow. Also consider going to a 2.2 pump. 1 gallon isn't even worth it. I am getting more than a gallon into my DS now without anything, by using a 2.1 injector on my 10 gpm machine.
 

814jeffw

Active member
@Mike,..the remote is RS-101. I'm not sure I understand the need for a check ball? Why would it pump mix back into the tank,..the "T" will actually be a poly 3-way valve. But,.I will keep it in mind.

@Ralph,..Thanks for the input,..I'm new to this idea but I know others have done it,..and you're right,..the pumps they used were 2 GPM or more. So,.yes,..I very well may consider that.

I also use a 2.1 mm injector,.. How do you get 1 GPM through the injector,..especially with a 10 GPM machine,..at face value,..(Without taking flow loss into account),..wouldn't that be a 1:10 ratio? That would be an awesome draw rate,.. especially on a high GPM machine. I'm likely missing something here.


My best ratio through 200' of 3/8" hose was 1:17 with an 8 GPM.

Jeff
 
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814jeffw

Active member
Sounds like an interesting idea.

Hope it works for you.

It would be great for those stubborn mold and algae jobs if it did like what you want it to.

Hey Christopher,..going through some old posts over on PTState,..I came across this,.and I find it interesting,..this is what you wrote,..from 2008


Bob, what if you took out the spring in an injector but installed a check valve so nothing would go back to the chem tank and plumbed in a 2gpm delavan so when you reduce the pressure at the gun and then turn on the delavan, you would have 5.6gpm (my machine) then 2.0gpm (Delavan) so your output would be like a 2.8 (water) :1 (chems) ?

Would that work?


And Bobs answer was yes,

And here is another thread on the topic from the Grime Scene. http://community.thegrimescene.com/topic/19410-chemical-injection-pump/



Jeff
 

clean2be

New member
Jeff, if you're installing a three way, you'll be fine. I run a super suds sucker and to optimize the draw, I removed the check ball from the filter/strainer.

I had done some preliminary testing back in the fall and got so busy I didn't have a chance to get back to it. What I did find was with a smaller 4gpm machine and testing with a 1gpm shur-flo, the draw was twice as much versus just the super suds sucker alone. Keep in mind, this was done using a short boom hose. I think the recommended pump for doing this is a 1.5gpm at 150psi.

Mike
 

814jeffw

Active member
Thanks Mike,..I am taking any and all advice and keeping it in mind. And will be doing some experimenting on my own as well. This idea would only be used sparingly,..you know for those jobs that require a stronger mix than typical DS'ing,..but doesn't really warrant the roof rig.

Jeff
 

Ralph Q

New member
@Mike,..the remote is RS-101. I'm not sure I understand the need for a check ball? Why would it pump mix back into the tank,..the "T" will actually be a poly 3-way valve. But,.I will keep it in mind.

@Ralph,..Thanks for the input,..I'm new to this idea but I know others have done it,..and you're right,..the pumps they used were 2 GPM or more. So,.yes,..I very well may consider that.

I also use a 2.1 mm injector,.. How do you get 1 GPM through the injector,..especially with a 10 GPM machine,..at face value,..(Without taking flow loss into account),..wouldn't that be a 1:10 ratio? That would be an awesome draw rate,.. especially on a high GPM machine. I'm likely missing something here.


My best ratio through 200' of 3/8" hose was 1:17 with an 8 GPM.

Jeff
Actually with a 2.1 injector the flow going through is about 7gpms, so you have to take loss into account. I don't know why I get a strong mix. All I know is I can go through a 2.5 gallon jug in probably 3 minutes, that's about the extent of my measuring. I have a dedicated tank that I draw from. I use a ball valve to apply mix which might be some of the reason. I can empty a 2.5 jug in 1 minute with my xjet WITH the ball valve throttled down to get a really strong mix.
 

Kiloman

New member
Yeah Jeff if you use the sss from espec you want need the pump espec put out that same idea you are talking about an it seems to work great but for a house there sss works perfect for house washing.If you hooked that pump up you could just use one hose instead of dedicated pump it would be great for concrete let us know how it works..
 

clean2be

New member
When doing a house wash, my sss does a fantastic job however, when you have a small patio or like the backside of a small garage or main structure roof which is really bad, even with the sss dropped in straight sh it isn't enough.

I have Ds'ed a few roof sections which had "light" algae stains and it worked great. The heavy algae is a different story and when primarily doing just a house wash, it's a pita having to fire up the roof rig for two or three hundred sq ft.

As far as the sss goes, it took me a little while trying to stomach the expense however, it's worth every penny!

Mike
 

Ralph Q

New member
The only thing I don't like about the force feeding concept is the pump cycles constantly. I have a feeling the pump will be burning out rather quick.
 

814jeffw

Active member
The only thing I don't like about the force feeding concept is the pump cycles constantly. I have a feeling the pump will be burning out rather quick.


I wondered about that Ralph. And I ran it through my mind more than once. It's gonna be a wait and see I guess,..

But,..I think the injector suction inlet is big enough to allow the flow of even a 2 GPM pump,..even with the ball and spring being in there. And also along with the soap injector itself sucking,..it should help prevent cycling? I kinda' figure these injectors will pull more soap when "allowed" to,..Like when using shorter hoses,...but,.the longer lengths of hose,.the less draw they have,..if that's correct? So,..the "booster" pump will just give the added extra flow they are capable of to begin with?,..and sucking all the extra SH in? ..I guess, Ha, Ha,...

I'm gonna begin with a 1.3 GPM 100 PSI demand pump.


@Mike,..I hear what you're saying about not using a demand pump,.but I am going to give it a shot due to the factors mentioned above,..and also because that's what I have on hand.

To experiment before the season starts,..I may simply hook up the 12V to the injector and see if it will push SH through the suction barb,..I think if it does,..it should work when the injector is actually inline and sucking?


Jeff
 

Kiloman

New member
Jeff epec has a video on there chemical induction system they have you could just watch it it would answer all the problems you have about getting it right or you could just buy one of theres lol.
 

814jeffw

Active member
Hey Hal,..yea I seen the video,..doesn't really answer anything. In fact,..the way they show the wiring is very crude,.using alligator clips to connect it to the battery,..and using wire nuts to tie the alligator clips into the pump. Both practices I wouldn't even consider. Not a very inclusive video either way,..basically just a sales video.

At the end of the day,.. I think the only way to answer questions is to hook it into my own setup.

Aside from the fact that I don't think they sell it anymore . At least not that I could see. I wouldn't be inclined to buy something that is so straight forward.

Jeff
 
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814jeffw

Active member
I may consider using one of the General Hi-Draws with dual suction ports,...one port for regular mix and second port plumbed to 12V pump,.and use it when needed. I don't know,..just brain storming.

Jeff
 
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