Deck Question

Connor

Connor

New member
Came across an ad of another deck contractor that offers not only staining but a separate internal deep seal. His steps are: clean, internal deep seal then stain. Claims that the internal deep seal is a lifetime treatment. Does anyone else offer this step and what product can you claim last a lifetime? Im curious....
 
It is a scam. Most of these treatments involve silicates or something that stays in/on the wood for a long period of time. The problem is that there is no lifetime guarantee on the graying that occurs through the product. Then when you try to re-coat to give it a color or tone it doesn't take. I have contractor here who just called me today because he stripped a cedar deck and thought he was okay to seal. He is using Ready Seal which is very penetrating and it won't go in the wood. Probably because one of these types of products were used. If you are bidding against one of these companies or contractors it is easy to get the job. Inform the customer there is no "lifetime guarantee" ( what really is a lifetime guarantee?) and that while it may protect it for a long time the appearance will not hold up for a lifetime. You could even ask the customer to ask the other company to include the appearance of the deck in that lifetime guarantee and they won't do it. You'll get the job!
 
Everett Abrams said:
It is a scam. Most of these treatments involve silicates or something that stays in/on the wood for a long period of time. The problem is that there is no lifetime guarantee on the graying that occurs through the product. Then when you try to re-coat to give it a color or tone it doesn't take. I have contractor here who just called me today because he stripped a cedar deck and thought he was okay to seal. He is using Ready Seal which is very penetrating and it won't go in the wood. Probably because one of these types of products were used. If you are bidding against one of these companies or contractors it is easy to get the job. Inform the customer there is no "lifetime guarantee" ( what really is a lifetime guarantee?) and that while it may protect it for a long time the appearance will not hold up for a lifetime. You could even ask the customer to ask the other company to include the appearance of the deck in that lifetime guarantee and they won't do it. You'll get the job!
Click to expand...

where is the "LIKE" button!! :thumbup2:
 
We actually stopped doing decks this past year because of all the crud on the market. You never know what you are getting into these days.
 
Right on Everett I have herd about these products from several wood specialists I know. The only lifetime guarantee they really offer is a lifetime of headaches.
 
You will strip and probably do some sanding. Anytime there is a barrier it needs to be addressed. In these cases penetrating products will be a problem because the stain or sealer will be closer to the surface and not in the wood. If you are using a linseed oil based product and it stays near the surface and does not get in the wood it could become a food source for mold and mildew and even stay tacky for quite a while. Either way you want to use a film forming product which would stay close to the surface. In these cases I personally stay away from anything oil and use a water-based sealer. In this business you need to flexible in your approach to wood restoration, you are always adapting to conditions of the wood. This means different ways of cleaning, sanding, and staining. I learned a long time ago this business is not one size fits all!
 
I can't tell you how much I agree with Everett. I am not a wood guy, because I don't think I have ever seen a deck in my area. I can agree that this business is not a one size fits all business. What works for one guy, in one area, will never fit for someone else.
 
Slow down guys. We use a deck treatment system that sounds alot like that. Creto Wood. It is what it is but its no scam. I'm very clear with my customers that it is a "stabilizer", not a surface coating. I tell them how it hardens within the wood keeping it from swelling and contracting with changes in moisture and temperature, and this protects it from cracking, cupping, and fastener rejection. I tell them it does nothing to protect the surface and so that is why we put Ready Seal right over the top of it and as long as you wait for it to dry in between the steps Ready Seal applies and penetrates exactly as it would otherwise. My understanding is that as it reacts within the wood it goes from liquid to gel in a couple days and gel to a glass like solid in a couple months.
 
If you are "filling" the wood with your product I am curious how Ready Seal would work. I have used Ready Seal in the past and while I am being fictitious it seems you could put Ready Seal on a cedar board and catch some going through the underside it is so penetrating. If you change the characteristics of the wood how is the sealer supposed to work as it should? Secondly, Exterior Wood Restoration and building a business is about maintenance and building a customer base. If the maintenance and future coats of this product, or any other, are not future maintenance friendly then they aren't worth it. Third, ALL customers want 2 things, protection and appearance, bottom line. This should be addressed in any coating. Honestly, from your post it sounds like any penetrating product would not work and what I posted previously about film forming products is what is best after these treatments have been applied. Perhaps someone more versed with Ready Seal like Pierce, Diamond Jim, or Pete would jump in here as well. After looking at the website it looks like it is a silicate or "silica gel" that is used. In my opinion, you will get VERY FEW wood guys that will use this product or agree with you on this being a good product to use. At the end and I personally have not been sold on ONE of these products.
 
There is a difference between stabilizing a piece of wood from swelling/contracting and sealing the surface. Case in point... Ready Seal is a great penetrating stain (i think it goes in something like 1/4 of an inch normally, but yes I've seen it travel thru a knot in the wood to the other side), but you can come back a year later and put more Ready Seal down and the wood will not repel it. However, if you put Ready Seal down over the top of some thompson's water seal it won't penetrate, it will bead up and be worthless. Does this mean Thompson's Water Seal is a better product than either Creto or Ready Seal. No way. My understanding is that only film forming products will truly repel. Creto and similar products are not film forming, that is why you can successfully apply Ready Seal over the top of it. I have applied Ready Seal over the top of stabilizers a couple dozen times, I can tell you that in my experience the wood soaks up two coats of Ready Seal as easily as if the wood was not stabilized. So the question becomes, whats the stabilizer doing? My understanding is that its chemical reaction somehow does not happen in the top 1/4 inch of wood, but only in the core. How or why this works, you'll have to ask the manufacturer.
 
Oh, and Everett, the contractor that called you with problems getting Ready Seal to penetrate may be dealing with a deck that had a stabilizer applied twice. A manufacturer once told me that you can apply these products once, and then a second time several days later and that second application will react and seal the surface of the wood, I guess this would be desirable in some cases.
 
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