CETA Org. What makes it so strong?

Clean County PW

Active member
Ceta Organization has 5000+members according to my source(Hi Ron) What makes them so strong? First off how long have they been around? And what is there growth rate per year?

The PWNA has been around for ten yrs and there membership is 300+. I believe this Organization can increase immensely if they can come up with a rock solid business plan. I know there in the process of making some new idea's become realities but I would like to know is how did CETA become so strong in there representation of distributers etc.

They must have a great business plan that caused this to happen. What are some others Idea's why one organization is so large and another one has such a slow growth rate?

What is the answer?????
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David Saulque

Senior Moderator
Ceta has 5000 members because they represent the distributors and dealers. We are the end user, otherwords the next step up from the consumer. It comes down to this buying power of ea. Ceta member is light years ahead of us as one member of PWNA. Look at your purchases in a month, do you think Landa will sell you parts direct based on your volum-no. PWNA will never get the buying power of the 300 members-until they crack that nut they will never get over 300-400. A good example- we can't even get into a Ceta Show unless we come with a Ceta Member.

Until we are able to pull local and state companies into a buying group we will just set.


Ron Musgraves

Exterior Restoration Specialist
Staff member

Chris Detter

New member
If I remember correctly, You can't even get into a Ceta show, unless you are a member and to be a member you have to be a dist. or manfr. (could be wrong about the manfr) But years ago the PWNA was at the Alladin Hotel in Vegas and next door was the Ceta show We tried to get them to let us in to browse and found out that end users can't see the stuff, because the prices were only wholesale (or something like that.
Also I always thought the membership was around 200-300

Thanks chris

Ron Musgraves

Exterior Restoration Specialist
Staff member

Our goal is to benefit future leaders in our industry and increase professionalism at every level. Remember your continuing contributions, along with others, support student scholarships, industry wide education and research. Thank you for helping achieve this goal!

That a statement right out of Ceta web site. Interesting???????????

Makes me wonder if they are a member of PWNA, and why they are not. Do they practice what they preach?

Just another disturbing thing......


New member
Hate to say it Ron, but the distributors that run CETA conscider PWNA to be a threat to their customer base. They believe that a member of PWNA will see more exposure to other distributors. Basically, they want to protect their customer base and this is why most distributors will not tell contractors about the PWNA association. I want to be fair, this does not include all distributors but it definetly reflects the opinions of those that control CETA.

Ron Musgraves

Exterior Restoration Specialist
Staff member
PWNA could control the distributors…..

We need more members and distributors. The two would bring in more people. I have talked to many contract cleaners that won’t join because they don’t feel the benefit of the show are worth it. Frankly I have not attended any shows so I can’t form this opinion. Many have told me that if they had a larger exhibit they would attend the show.

Ceta Has 300 guys that understand the benefit of belonging to and org. Shouldn’t we start with half that number as a goal for 2003 to retain 150 new distributor members?


Member Specialist
If CETA feels PWNA is a threat to them and their customer base then they need to know how I see things.

I will use Hydro Tek as an example:

When I was researching this business and decided to get into it I knew I wanted top line equipment from the get go and the top two were Hydro Tek and All American (now Alkota).

I almost bought the Hydro Tek till I found out their salesman are out selling to the VERY CUSTOMERS I would be selling my services to.

Now how do I see Hydro Tek, as a direct competitor going after my accounts.

Am I or PWNA a threat to them, NO they are a threat to me when they try to convince customers to buy their equipment and do it themselves.

One other thing and this bugs me to no end, why is it that the manufacturers and wholesalers do not have to mention anything about the EPA rules when selling yet us end users are expected to know it all?

I do feel they should be required to also explain things something in this order:

If you buy my equipment you must know the EPA laws concerning waste water runoff so here is a book about the basic rules and laws..

Any company that cannot support the very customer base that their product is intended for should be ashamed of how they run their business.

CETA team up with PWNA and become a powerhouse, both sides would benefit greatly.


Clean County PW

Active member
Why would Ceta(Which has been around longer then PWNA) want to join with the PWNA when both organizations represent Distributors? It would make NO sense in there part which is probably the reason why they view the PWNA a threat to them in the first place.

On a much smaller scale some of the bb's lock out there membership list for the same reason "To protect there customer list". It may sound nuts but that is what some people believe in.

I guess I can see the logic in a certain way as to why Ceta doesn't want the end user "Contractor/Us" to belong to there ORG. because then we will see the Tremendous Mark up that the distributors put on there equipment" which could hurt there business.

I aplaud the PWNA effort to combine the Distr./Manfr./Contr members into this ORG. which Ultimately should help them grow in size in the long run one would think.

As for Ceta they are probably a decent Org. to belong to but as a PWNA member we should be able to grow and do allright for ourselves without there help/involvement because it just aint going to happen anyway.


New member
In no industry does a manufacturer/distributor show open to the public, whether it is candy, diapers or cleaning equipment. Shows are intended to be a cost effective way of manufacturers meeting with the maximum number of dealers to introduce new products, programs or pricing. You cannot buy autoparts at the same price as a dealer from their supplier (Ford/GM/D-C), you can buy aftermarket 'will fit' parts but there is often no guarantee of performance.

I am sure that most manufacturers make less per unit than the dealers. The costs are close for most components and the details make the difference.

Major manufacturers have invested in facilities and research/development to ensure consistent product with safety.

Recently we certified a specialty unit to meet a specific standard; the cost was well in excess of $30,000 which we must recoup through the cost of the machine. Even changing paperwork to reflect a component change or model addition costs us. We are liable to at least 2 unannounced inspections by our certifying authority every year, which we also pay for, to ensure that we are doing what we say we are.

This guarantees that products arrive with the same wiring, plumbing and components time after time. Our certifiying authority also requires life-cycle performance statements of the components used so we have to choose them with care; lower life-cycle performance components cannot be used in certified machines.

On-line sellers do not have a stake in your success. They download all maintenance and repair resonsibility to the end user. They require you to know what parts to stock to repair your machine and once they have your money they simply cannot see you every day so they really have no responsibility to you. Many use private label manufactured machines that are built to a price not a performance target.

We used to sell direct but stopped that about 10 years ago. We found that you are either a manufacturer or a distributor never both. That is why Hotsy closed it's corporate stores, and Ford/GM/D-C rely on dealers when they could (potentially) make more money selling direct.

When asked how he felt prior to his launch into space to the moon Neil Armstrong replied; "How do think I feel? I am strapped into the largest, most complex machine ever built with 300,000 pieces all supplied by the lowest bidder."

A local professional pressure washer dealer has a vested interest in your success as they benefit from your business. Every econmomic theory places a 7:1 multiplier on money spent locally. Your customers have the same opportunity to shop for alternative sources of service that you have for supply. How would you feel if a company parachuted into your neighbourhood to do a job for a wee bit less than you but then you are expected to respond immediately to their call for service because you are local?

A dealer has the support of the factory and in a couple of instances we have had a particularly difficult to diagnose unit shipped back to us for assessment and repair because the dealer and out technical people could not do it by remote control. Our interest is in the success of our dealer so we try and supply products they can sell at prices that are competitive.

There is no perfect way to do anything.

I try and find dealers who I feel look out for the best interests of their customers (you). Although not always successful, I have also always been available for any of you to speak with. I like to think that both my attitude and that of the comapny I work for is different that what you are used to from a manufacturer. Our growth in the last 7 years has been in the double digits every year.

We are not the cheapest, although we know we are price competitive at the dealer level. We are not the prettiest, but we are woking on the cosmetics. We are not perfect, but we try awfully hard. We do have a service department that fixes every pressure washer made, every day, so we try and put what we learn into how we build. I know what components cost, I know what delaers pay and whatever anyone decides to sell at will determine how long they stay in business and how well they service their customers.

Our industry has lost a couple of low cost manufactuers in the last few years (Elite, Zealco, Diamond, Rhino, Tuff et al) some live on in name only as part of a larger group but no longer are they as respnsive as they were.

An association is only as good as the ability of the executive to do what they say they will. Lacking tangible benefit and a focused direction that is printed and adhered to there is little to expect for the ultimate success of the association. My first CETA meeting was in Chicago 6 years ago and ther were over 100 booths. I have not been to a show since Dallas and I heard there were about 55 booths in Reno this year. Opening the show to end users would serve no useful purpose and in my opinion holding the show every year does the same. We do not benefit from membership in CETA so we do not join. It is not my place to comment on how and what they do so the above is only my general opinion on any association.

Cheers, Michael

Clean County PW

Active member
Well said Micheal. I couldn't agree with you more. I deal with an excellent dealer here that sells Landa,Mi-t-m,Hotsy and one or 2 other. They guarantee there Machines and when one is brought into them that needs to stay there a couple of days they will give you a loner free of charge. To have this piece of mind it makes it worth the extra $$ that I pay for my Powerwashers. You can't put a price on support.

Do you belong to the PWNA Micheal? Would you care to share some more of your thoughts about this organization and what you would possibly do to make it an organization that can be more succesful then it already has been?

I believe the PWNA represents Contractors, Distributors, Manufactorers and suppliers. Is it possible for the PWNA to be really succesful having these 4 groups as members or would it be better to represent maybe just one or 2 of them together? Anothere words are they spreading themselves to thin representing these 4 major groups?

Your thought are greatly appreciated.

Ron Musgraves

Exterior Restoration Specialist
Staff member
John, you beat me to the question,

Are you a PWNA Member????????????

If you are that’s great if you are not my views are changing. You’re a manufacture selling equipment to end users yet you do not support there efforts in bettering the industry so you can sell more and more and more and more equipment.

Sorry for making EPPS the first on my hit list. Call DOC today and make your donation to the industry that supports you. Literally………….

I respect all you knowledge and comment over the year and know you a person that wants to help and you’re a great promo guy. Please help the industry and be one the first that I have asked. JOIN………….


Member Specialist
Michael has been a great help over the years to all regardless of brand of equipment.

If more manufactures like him would get involved on the boards I truly feel all of us would benefit.

One other thing about Michael is he never pushes his product, he answers the question without comparing brands.

As to their reasons for not being a member of CETA or PWNA well I feel that is confidential yet also feel it would be a big plus to PWNA if he did join.

Clean Country, you get free loaners? no dealer out here offers any loaners let alone rentals. Sure the rental yards have cold water machines but no heavy duty hot waters for rent.