A Poll

What does one machine need to gross in a year to stay in business,

  • $25,000 to $50,000

    Votes: 2 9.5%

  • $50,000 to $65,000

    Votes: 3 14.3%

  • $65,000 to $80,000

    Votes: 2 9.5%

  • $80,000 to $95,000

    Votes: 7 33.3%

  • $95,000 to $115,000

    Votes: 5 23.8%

  • $115,000 or more

    Votes: 2 9.5%
  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .
Scott Stone

Scott Stone

New member
I want to take a poll on what one machine needs to make gross in order for it to be profitable to be in business on a full time basis. This is one machine running doing washing, and maybe one or two employees, with an owner operator. Please participate. I want a real number and not a fantasy figure.

Scott
 
A Hood Cleaner full time with a mix of accounts & frequency should gross $110-$125,000 per crew. At $500 per night or $2500 per wk @52 week=$130.

David
 
Set some more perimeters:

What types of work (washing houses or fleet, new construction / restoration / one story / 10 story buildings / commercial or residential, where do you live? Alaska / Hawaii / Florida / Zimbambwe. Hot or cold water, how expensive are your chemicals you clean with, how much marketing you have to do to get jobs, do you have to reclaim, what's you labor base, what kind of licensing you need to do the work, how far you have to drive on your average jobs. Is it new equipment / old equipment, what depreciation rates can we use and how many years, what are my other expenses: insurance (varies state to state), workers comp. (comp varies from 6% to 19% state to state even on similar type work), etc., etc., etc.

Too broad a question - please narrow it down, then we can play.

Regards,
 
Paul

It's just a general poll-thats all Scott is asking! My amounts are on the low side, and this is California. My comp rate is 19%.

David
 
I voted already but the poll is meaningless unless you have perimeters.

Example:
I own half of an LLP masonry business and I pay myself $75K a year plus bennies. - To me it's not worth owning a business if I can't make $100K salary, bonus and bennies. I can work for someone else and make $100K. My partner ditto. If we each want to make that much, our LLP should gross a min. $2M a year to pay our portion. and our LLC does not need to be profitable above break even with any number of employees.

I also own Genesis Pressure Cleaning Ltd. How much do I need to make to make it worthwhile? Lets say that's the only business I have:

Employees are one of my single biggest cost items. A P/W is a very small cost of my business. If I want to keep one employee full time, pay them $14/hr. insurance, vacation and benefits, that person costs me about $45K a year. If that's 30% of my total costs, then I need to gross $138,000 to break even (before tax day).

If I work also, now I need 2 machines, maybe 2 trucks, 2 trailers (2 sets of equipment). I don't need to have 2 sets of spares of everything, but my costs go up. If I also want to make $14/hr. full time, then with the above criteria I only need to gross another $90,000. If I want to make $30/hr. then I need to gross another $44,300.

If I make it a 3-some, I don't need another machine, or truck, etc. I can put 2 guys an a job and finish faster, but now I need more work to keep them employed full time. My maintenance costs, spare and replacement costs will be higher along with insurance, etc, etc. To keep a second employee at $14/hr. based on the above criterion, I need to gross another $48-50K.

And it goes on and on. After the 4th person I have to add for payroll, secretary, supervision, etc, etc. etc.

Now these are all numbers before the accountant gets hold of it and puts his magic spell on it - with write-off's, depreciation, investments, etc. my profits start hitting pretty decent numbers.
If I lease a truck, I can write it all off. I can work out a deal to lease a truck for three years and write off all costs. I pay 2-3x what someone else may pay, but at the end of three years the truck is payed off or almost. Then I buy the truck from the dealer for $2500 or less. I have a 3-year old personal truck for $2500.
I can sell it, or ...??? The same can be done with office furniture, computers, etc., etc.

If I have kids, each one can own... well, we'll leave that for another time.

Bottom line for new construction masonry cleaning:
Owner operator full time, and one full time employee with one machine to pay net $60K for owner, $30K gross for employee, business gross = $122K (after tax day).

Regards,

Paul B. (Mean Papa - Blues Meister)
Genesis Pressure Cleaning Ltd.
 
The keyword was fulltime huh? In Fleets you should be able to make $2000 per week working full time on one machine, but 2 is better.

And I don't own any other businesses hmmmm.
 
Paul,
It really is a general question. I am just seeing what the tolerance of the various contractors is, and what they think a profitable business should make. What you and I think are profitable would not be profitable to some people, and we would be living on "Easy Street" to some others. As I am sure you are aware, there are many on these boards that are part time, and I am sure that there are more than a few that some would consider "low Ballers". Heck, I may be one of them. Like I said I am just trying to get a general feel, and since the polls on this board is not traceable, unless someone wants to sit on watch where everyone is at a particular time, I think that this is a good way to do it.

Scott
 
I don’t want to answer this because I will say any individual machine operator need to gross at least 90,000 minimums. That’s bare bones one man.


I think Scott’s having fun. He knows what it takes, however I’m sure some of these guys that say they can stays float on 25,000 might be able too. I could not and would not because having a job would be easier.


I have a question, what the maximum one rig with two guys could run? I think its 180,000. I think you could only push your equipment two shifts.


Its interesting to see the opinions of others, I don’t think anyone is wrong. If really boils down to what you need. Where you live when you want to retire? Where you want to retire? Frankly just how much stress can you take?
 
You're correct - profitability is objective.

When applying for a business loan, a bank's idea is totally different then the owners.

If you take general business guidelines (I think) the average is around 10-11% of gross for a medium size business. For large corporations the average is about 3-4%. Not sure what the average is for small business. I always try to stay conservative when putting together a business plan and use about 10-11%, but for me it is also dependent on the type of business it is (how much abuse I will have to endure). Staying conservative helps me to be more aggresive when it comes to reducing expenses and O/H.

Ron,
Again if you're looking at how much you can generate from one piece of equipment you have to be careful because different areas utilize equipment differently. Some jobs are more labor extensive than others. Example: deck restoration may only use a pressure washer for only 10%-20% of the total job time. For flat work, it may be 80%. For exhaust cleaning it may be 60-70%, etc. If I owned heavy equipment, I would want to make sure I could bill it out as many hours as possible.

Some businesses could be 24/7, where others may be limited to 8-12 hrs. per day and outdoor activities are usually weather impacted and seasonal (some much less than others). These are all items that should be considered part of a business plan and will impact your overall profitability.

It would help the poll if everyone gave a bit of background on the work they do. No names necessary just type of work. You already stipulated full time, but you could add part time as well.

Regards,
 
OK, I'm a pain in the a$$, but let me throw some more numbers out there (pondering is my life).

- To gross $40K profit per year at a 30% profit range, you need to generate about $133,000 of business

- To gross $30K profit per year at a 30% profit range, you need to generate about $100,000 of business

- To gross $20K profit per year at a 20% profit range, you need to generate about $100,000 of business

- To gross $40K profit per year at a 50% profit range, you need to generate about $80,000 of business

- To gross $30K profit per year at a 50% profit range, you need to generate $60,000 of business.

You can work any of these numbers backwards and forwards

Reference:
$10/hr is about $20K per year
$20/hr is about $40K per year
$30/hr is about $60K per year

Again, your tax write-offs will make a large difference in net profitability.


Thanks for your patience.

Regards,
 
Im not sure if i read it here or on another bbs but the qoute was $45.00 hour on a single machine (one person I think) or you are loosing money. $45.00 * 8 * 5 * 52 =$93,600 a year to operate with out loosing money. Dont know if that is correct but it seems resonable to me.
 
Paul, you are confusing the issue. It is for a one man band. It does not matter what they are doing, just what they think that they need to gross to make a living. I don't want part timers, because I don't care what anyone is making, I want to know what they think that they need to make to make a living. My standard of living is not the same as Bigboy's, and his is not the same as Jon's, wo does not have the same standard as you. All that I want to know is what everyone thinks that a one man band needs to gross to make a living.

Let me explain why. I think that a lot of newbies do not have a clue how much revenue that needs to be generated to make a living, pay the business expenses, and putting a bit away for future needs. It does not need to be over analyzed, in fact, it does not need to be analyzed at all, it is more a tolerance thing.

Scott
 
Paul, frankly about the equipment being used differently thing. I could make as much in your market and any other. I’m sure your right about others, I’m not other’s and I know I could take a different application and when my learning curve is over I can make the same money. With in 5% to 10%

Keep analyzing, Scotties getting worked up! I started him sorry Scott.


Scott, your bro is to good for us now, hes being protected.
 
ONE MAN , ONE hot water washer, who is working for himself , needs to make $2,000 and up per week , overhead at 50% any one man should do just fine .

owner/operater and 1 helper $3,500 per wk. (with 2 hot water washers).

mel
 
Thanks for being more specific.

Your initial post was not as specific.
"I want to take a poll on what one machine needs to make gross in order for it to be profitable to be in business on a full time basis. This is one machine running doing washing, and maybe one or two employees, with an owner operator."

To me there is a difference between a one man show and a 1+1+1? Do you understand why I may have not understood?

In order to give a meaningful answer, I like to understand the question.

It's clear now!
(It doesn't change my poll.)

$100K divided by 2080 = $48

My statements for anything above $65K-$75K still holds.
Lot of mitigating circumstances on tolerance levels other than lifestyle (spouse also works, health insurance covered under spouse, etc.).


Regards,
 
Ron,

Your tone of voice seems to indicate you're being somewhat defensive. (Caffeine does some strange things to me.)

I was not questioning your capabilities as I'm sure most things you do, you do well. I was not addressing you, or your business with my comments on calculating how much money each piece of equipment needs to gross. Please re-read the messages (if you want) to get things back into perspective.

I try to keep in mind that there are others out there (of different experience levels) that read the message(s) I post. Sometimes I will ask questions that I already know the answers to - I wan't to see how others respond. Sometimes I like to play the devil's advocate to explore the down-side of things. At other time I just have no clue.

Believe me you will know if I ever am questioning your capabilities. I speak my mind.

Good day!

Regards,
 
You also have to factor in where one lives also because $50,000 will go alot further in Arkansas then it would in NY. So I would say the least that one machine would have to make to stay in business in NY would have to fall in the $80,000-$95,000 range and that is the gross. Anything less then that you can't survive here unless of course you have another job to fall back to like I have.
 
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