Just got this from PHX about Cleaning Run Off

Jim@Garagecleaning

Jim@Garagecleaning

banned
Here is the outlined requirements for the PHX area. http://phoenix.gov/STREETS/pkggar.pdf This link tells you the procedures for cleaning sidewalks, shopping malls, garage cleaning, parking lots, etc.

Granted, not as restrictive as California, however the point here is that the new more restrictive requirements are moving east. California is the leader in storm water management requirements, however, they still have a long way to go.

Fines are the new thing now. Jack in the Box just got fined $10,000 for the oily build up from their parking lot stalls. When it rained, an oily residue went into the storm drain. THIS IS A FIRST IN CALIFORNIA that I am aware of.

A conference from all 50 states is being held here in California to "educate" other cities on the requirements set forth to pressure washers. Along with this meeting, Federal Guidelines and Code Enforcement Classes. This will include the area of the law that issues fines.

According to my contact, Dry Wells are covered in this and will not be allowed to dump into them unless they have an oil water separator installed, and was tested to meet or exceed State and Federal requirements for discharge prior to the cleaning. This "test" will be conducted on site by an Approved License State Contractor. Documentation will have to be available for inspection prior to any wash down or run off from the cleaning.

May I suggest that the Cities and States are looking for ways to increase their revenue. Fines are a good way to accomplish this without raising taxes.

If you do not have or know of the laws in your State, I suggest that you read up on the Federal Guidelines for discharge, also called "The Clean Water Act".

With this conference, it is my understanding that the cities will be hiring new inspectors to try to "catch" run off and illegal dumping into the storm drains and or dry wells. Already here in N. California, fines have hit over $300,000 from just hiring 2 new inspectors. Thats in 1 county alone.

If you think this is not coming to your neck of the woods, ask yourself this:

Do you honestly think that your city would not want that kind of extra revenue? Hense the conference.

Last count.... 435 confirmed RSVP. from across the country.
 
Jim, What I don't understand is this:

1) I have an RV dump in my backyard. I dump poop, pee, and whatever cleaning stuff we use to clean the camper, bleach, ammonia, etc right down that sewer and it is no problem. I can do the same at every dump station in California.

The PHX guidelines you posted clearly state that you can dump in the sewer. Why can't you just collect the water and dump it in the sewer and leave all that filtering for the water treatment plant? I thought that was what water treatment plants were for.

2) Roads get oil and other vehicle fluids on them. When it rains it runs in the gutter. How is that different from you washing down a parking garage using nothing but hot water? Where is the sense? I'm sure outlawing rain is just around the corner.

I'm sorry Jim, I know you are just cashing in on it and taking advantage of the situation you are in, but I personally don't see any common sense in it at all.

That's why California is always broke and that's why it's always on fire, because stupid people don't understand managing the forest and confuse "thinning the forest" with "hurting the poor trees".

Let me know if I'm way off base.
 
JIm, the cwa is the same in every state. No discharge into us water allowed. period...

You cannot discharge into storm water at all.

Jim, california is not ahead. in fact they are far behind. Most states are complient and have had these in place.

We have enoforcement here and have had for years. They ride bikes and come up on you when you least expect it. then the van pulls up and they start testing the water in your tanks.

Tell me in what county in cali they have reached this level?

I hate to argue with you on this Jim but cali is no different then the entire US...

The CWA is federal regulation and states that meet the requirements get beni's. the states that dont get fine and stand to loose federal funding.

Anyone anywhere trying to discharge even bottled water into the US waters is subject to fines and prison. PEIOD
 
Jim@Garagecleaning said:
Here is the outlined requirements for the PHX area. http://phoenix.gov/STREETS/pkggar.pdf This link tells you the procedures for cleaning sidewalks, shopping malls, garage cleaning, parking lots, etc.

Granted, not as restrictive as California, however the point here is that the new more restrictive requirements are moving east. California is the leader in storm water management requirements, however, they still have a long way to go.

Fines are the new thing now. Jack in the Box just got fined $10,000 for the oily build up from their parking lot stalls. When it rained, an oily residue went into the storm drain. THIS IS A FIRST IN CALIFORNIA that I am aware of.

A conference from all 50 states is being held here in California to "educate" other cities on the requirements set forth to pressure washers. Along with this meeting, Federal Guidelines and Code Enforcement Classes. This will include the area of the law that issues fines.

According to my contact, Dry Wells are covered in this and will not be allowed to dump into them unless they have an oil water separator installed, and was tested to meet or exceed State and Federal requirements for discharge prior to the cleaning. This "test" will be conducted on site by an Approved License State Contractor. Documentation will have to be available for inspection prior to any wash down or run off from the cleaning.

May I suggest that the Cities and States are looking for ways to increase their revenue. Fines are a good way to accomplish this without raising taxes.

If you do not have or know of the laws in your State, I suggest that you read up on the Federal Guidelines for discharge, also called "The Clean Water Act".

With this conference, it is my understanding that the cities will be hiring new inspectors to try to "catch" run off and illegal dumping into the storm drains and or dry wells. Already here in N. California, fines have hit over $300,000 from just hiring 2 new inspectors. Thats in 1 county alone.

If you think this is not coming to your neck of the woods, ask yourself this:

Do you honestly think that your city would not want that kind of extra revenue? Hense the conference.

Last count.... 435 confirmed RSVP. from across the country.
Click to expand...


Yes Jim if you picked the water up and then dumped it into a dry well you would be breaking the law.... Absolutly. You have to many contaminants on your rig. You would then be required to use a pretreatment facility. Phx has three...
 
http://www.epa.gov/region6/6en/w/pw.htm

This is off of that epa web page:

"A properly operated car wash discharges all of its wash water to a municipal sanitary sewer system that treats the wastewater before discharging from the wastewater treatment plant to waters of the U.S. Most municipalities have a pretreatment program requiring car washes to perform some type of pretreatment such as discharging through a sand filter and grease trap"

If I understand this correctly, a car wash, which is going to get the same types of oil, antifreeze and other vehicle discharges that we would pick up in a parking lot CAN dump in the sewer, but MAY require some pre-treatment.

In a nutshell, no runoff into the storm drains at all. That is the sum total of the FEDERAL regulations. (I'm still looking for federal transport regulations but haven't found them yet)

Am I correct?
 
So for us in AZ that means that you just can't dump in the storm drain, however if we have a recovery system, then are we able to dump the waste water we don't use in the municipal sanitary sewer? Also with the recovery system, when you get build up oils and sludge where are you able to dispose of it or can it go with waste water into the sewer?
 
Nope, not quite. You can't dump in the sanitary sewer without a permit, and you are not going to get a permit for your residence. In fact, technically, in Mesa, you are not even supposed to run a business out of your home. Not that people do not do it.
The technical aspect of it is no off property discharge. Nothing down the storm drain, or, and this is a point of contention, down the storm drain. There is a three part seperator installed in the Mesa area. It is on the Northwest corner of Stapley and Southern in the new construction.
 
Just told this a few months ago.

City of Danville last year was removing Graffiti from a public building. They used hot water pressure washer with no detergent or product. The water went into a flower bed. NONE went into the street or storm drain.The flower bed was 10 ft wide before adjacent to the lawn, then another 25 ft to the sidewalk. EPA came by and saw the removal and asked " Where are the molecules of the paint going?" They replied " Evaporating or going into the dirt. EPA asked if the flower bed is lined to prevent the contaminated water from reaching the underground drinking supply? They said it had a weed bearer. EPA said " Not good enough. When it rains, the particles from the spray paint, which was proven by a recent study at UC Berkeley, was able to reach the underground drinking supply"

They got fined for particles entering the underground drinking supply.

In most cases in N. California, any graffiti removal must be captured, in some cases filtered, and then the substance MUST be sent to the sanitation facility. Using the landscape as a filter or thinking evaporation is acceptable are not valid options for graffiti removal any more in some cities of California.

In Contra Costa, pressure washing a Building with no detergent is being considered for reclamation.

I do not agree with this, however I do not make the laws.



Police are being asked to patrol at night to assist the SRWQCB and the local sanitation Dept's. in issuing fines. Lab trucks similar to, a James Bond movie, are on call.

One was called on a job we did. It had 6 stations with computerized micro scopes connected to (21 inch ) color LCD monitors. The inside was done all in white, 3 stations on each side. They analyzed my filter before, during the filtration process, and after, with ticket books and police in hand ready to fine me or worse. Thank God I passed, however I was shitting my pants during the 20 to 40 minutes it took them to analyze the test samples. This was for Garage Cleaning and not sidewalk cleaning.




Just some mindless info...

Currently, Lake Tahoe is the strictest city in the US for discharge and pressure washing, according to the SWRQCB. We are trying to get in, however, though our filter is 10 years ahead of State requirements, it may not be good enough for the requirements set forth in Lake Tahoe. They are asking that I do a $4,850 test before I am considered and then I am limited to volume of discharge.
 
Jim@Garagecleaning said:
Just told this a few months ago.

City of Danville last year was removing Graffiti from a public building. They used hot water pressure washer with no detergent or product. The water went into a flower bed. NONE went into the street or storm drain.The flower bed was 10 ft wide before adjacent to the lawn, then another 25 ft to the sidewalk. EPA came by and saw the removal and asked " Where are the molecules of the paint going?" They replied " Evaporating or going into the dirt. EPA asked if the flower bed is lined to prevent the contaminated water from reaching the underground drinking supply? They said it had a weed bearer. EPA said " Not good enough. When it rains, the particles from the spray paint, which was proven by a recent study at UC Berkeley, was able to reach the underground drinking supply"

They got fined for particles entering the underground drinking supply.

In most cases in N. California, any graffiti removal must be captured, in some cases filtered, and then the substance MUST be sent to the sanitation facility. Using the landscape as a filter or thinking evaporation is acceptable are not valid options for graffiti removal any more in some cities of California.

In Contra Costa, pressure washing a Building with no detergent is being considered for reclamation.

I do not agree with this, however I do not make the laws.



Police are being asked to patrol at night to assist the SRWQCB and the local sanitation Dept's. in issuing fines. Lab trucks similar to, a James Bond movie, are on call.

One was called on a job we did. It had 6 stations with computerized micro scopes connected to (21 inch ) color LCD monitors. The inside was done all in white, 3 stations on each side. They analyzed my filter before, during the filtration process, and after, with ticket books and police in hand ready to fine me or worse. Thank God I passed, however I was shitting my pants during the 20 to 40 minutes it took them to analyze the test samples. This was for Garage Cleaning and not sidewalk cleaning.




Just some mindless info...

Currently, Lake Tahoe is the strictest city in the US for discharge and pressure washing, according to the SWRQCB. We are trying to get in, however, though our filter is 10 years ahead of State requirements, it may not be good enough for the requirements set forth in Lake Tahoe. They are asking that I do a $4,850 test before I am considered and then I am limited to volume of discharge.
Click to expand...

Some of this crap is just insane. No wonder you get $400 dolars a sq ft LOL

But really its crazy
 
Ron,

You are right about the exhaust. Thats why we went with the diesels. They pollute less than the 24 hp gasoline motors. Our diesel engines are compliant till 2015. At that time we will be changing them out.

I have looked at the boilers as well. California, as of 2009, will be the first state which will not allow sale of boilers above 800,000 BTU. In 2012 I heard that will drop to 600k. If you already have a boiler set up in place, you will be grandfathered in providing it is mobile.

I looked at electricity before I built our first rig. Boilers heated by electricity are not efficient PERIOD. You need a minimum of 440 volts to heat the water up to 170 degrees. Also, the motors would need to be 220 if you want them to last more than 3 to 400 hours. If you got electricity from an outside outlet, they would only be on a 15 amp. This would drive 1 pump MAYBE on the entire outside circuit. If other units are on the circuit, such as lights, you would trip the circuit. Also you would have to considered the length of the extension cord. The longer the cord, the lower gauge wire you would need. ( the thicker the wire )

Then you have the water issue. Having as little as 220 volts will make you think twice before working with water and electricity. Severe burns will result in a mishap and possible death. 440 there is no possibility.. 440 will kill you.

So electricity is a good thought.... for mixing with water... thats not for us.
 
Ron Musgraves said:
Jim, the cwa is the same in every state. No discharge into us water allowed. period...

You cannot discharge into storm water at all.

Jim, California is not ahead. in fact they are far behind. Most states are compliant and have had these in place.

We have enforcement here and have had for years. They ride bikes and come up on you when you least expect it. then the van pulls up and they start testing the water in your tanks.

Tell me in what county in Cali they have reached this level?

I hate to argue with you on this Jim but Cali is no different then the entire US...

The CWA is federal regulation and states that meet the requirements get beni's. the states that dint get fine and stand to loose federal funding.

Anyone anywhere trying to discharge even bottled water into the US waters is subject to fines and prison. PEIOD
Click to expand...

Contra Costa County, Lake Tahoe and surrounding foothills, Sacramento County, San Jose County.

All of them are issuing fines that meet or exceed the above listed requirements. Lake Tahoe and Contra Costa had these strict requirements back in 1989 when we was the first in California and possibly the Nation for permits need for filtration of Class II hazardous waste generated from Garage Cleaning according to the SWRQCB.
 
Jim@Garagecleaning said:
Contra Costa County, Lake Tahoe and surrounding foothills, Sacramento County, San Jose County.

All of them are issuing fines that meet or exceed the above listed requirements. Lake Tahoe and Contra Costa had these strict requirements back in 1989 when we was the first in California and possibly the Nation for permits need for filtration of Class II hazardous waste generated from Garage Cleaning according to the SWRQCB.
Click to expand...


So your confiming my point, we went thru the fines and now most in the city comply and follow regs. We have enforcement and have had for 15 years i know of. When we first started they handed fines out.
 
just wondering..

how would i go about finding out what the regs are for the ne fla region?
 
Disciples said:
how would i go about finding out what the regs are for the ne fla region?
Click to expand...


The actual CWA is the same, there is no place in the country you can dump anything into US waters without permit.

each city and county have BMP for washing. Many vary but some are way ahead of others.

colorado MI and AZ have very good practices.
 
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