Hot water "same" as soap? The lie that will kill an industry

Tony Shelton

BS Detector, Esquire
Please do a google search for "Hot water is the same as soap" or "Hot water is an emulsifier".

These are lies.

Even when trying to use hot water to emulsify oils it is almost impossible to make a stable emulsification that isn't easily separated without constant agitation or the addition of extra chemicals to cause emulsification to occur.

http://www.makingcosmetics.com/articles/27-how-to-make-water-in-oil-emulsions.pdf

Do a search for Robert's claim that: Hot water is an emulsifier and similar to using a detergent. Then be prepared to be educated on soaps, detergents, and surfactants but be warned, the statement Robert makes will be proven to be completely FALSE. It is simply a lie.

It is a lie that is being presented to authorities as the truth and is an actionable offense. It is actionable because Robert has already been informed and shown that this is a false claim over three years ago, yet he still continues to assault our industry with this claim.

The fact is, hot water, without careful lab conditions does NOT emulsify oil. It can "melt" oil to make it more easily removable, but it remains separate from the water molecules, as easily shown by just looking at the oil sheen the rides on TOP of hot water runoff when cleaning. Even a child could see that.

The runoff that comes from hot water only cleaning is EASILY separated from the water using simple oil booms that have been industry standards for years. It can be done ON THE GROUND, without the need of adding more power equipment to introduce additional, unnecessary pollution into the air.

When using soap or detergents in some cases the oil becomes bound to the surfactants making them more difficult to remove. At this point in the evolution of our industry there are few options in this case other than picking up the water and dumping it in the sewer or into landscaping which breaks it down to the individual parts over time.

Hot water cleaning is the most environmentally responsible way to clean. For it to be effective, it needs to be done frequently. Adding further restrictions based on lies, that add more cost to cleaning will do nothing but DECREASE frequency and have the opposite effect on water quality. Added, unnecessary vacuum equipment will have the opposite of the desired effect on AIR QUALITY.

Making policy based on a false premise is a roadmap to failure on many levels.
 
Hot Water is a soap lie Hot Water is an emulsifier lie more lies from Robert H

People out there need to stop the spreading of lies like "Hot Water is a soap" or "Hot Water is an emulsifier" and other nonsense like that.

This is what is hurting our industry and there is a vendor out there that is spreading these lies in order to lie to cities, regulators and other municipalities in order to scare them into buying his equipment or into hiring him to help them make their bmp's harder for contractors to do the same job and possibly get the contractors and the cities fined if they don't hire him or make the contractors buy his reclaim equipment.

This is a nationwide scam that needs to be looked at by city officials, city regulators and pressure cleaning contractors so they understand the scam that is being pulled so they see it for the scam that it is and so that they will not fall for the lies that are being spread by Robert H. and his cronies out there.

Thank You for the great informative posts Tony!
 
Completely agree Tony. I could be wrong, but,.. doesn't the EPA consider hot water the same as using chemicals? Hope I am wrong.
 
OK, great to know. Thank You!
 
this Robert H character seems to be a bit of a wanker IMHO. Is he that full of shit that people (authorities) can't see through him and his bullshit???
 
Unfortunately not all regulators and city officials see through all of Robert Hinderliters lies, B.S., propaganda and mis-information.

It is these lies, B.S., propaganda and mis-information that messed up cities here in the USA and finally some great people like Ron Musgraves and Doug Rucker started to get Houston back on track so they were not illegally citing and ticketing honest hard working contractors anymore.

It is a shame what Robert Hinderliter is doing, I would bet that most if not all of the members of his pwna know what he is doing to them by working with cities to make regulations stricter for contractors in the hopes they will have to buy his reclaim equipment to stay in business and to be legal in their eyes.
 
I wish hot water acted like a degreaser it would really save me some time.

So whats this guys reasoning? Does he sell reclaim equipment? Is he really just concerned about the environment? Does everyone in PWNA have reclaim equipment so he is just watching out for his people? Whats up?
 
There are some at the PWNA that have recovery equipment. Some of them have so much invested in their equipment that it has become a large part of their business model. Because of that, they feel the need to get their customers through fear, and trying to make it a legal requirement to use certain equipment in the cleaning process.
The sad part is, the people that are most adamant about using recovery equipment on every job, don't have any credentials, and use false information that contractors buy into, to try and scare people into using them, because they claim to have the proper equipment.
There are certain areas of pressure washing that require full recovery equipment. Parking garages and Fleets are the two biggies, but you still do not need to have the ability to manufacture ultra pure water after cleaning to wash these things. Often, if you want really pure water, you can do something simple like a DE filter from a pool supply house. There are some that claim they will blow up, but these are the same people that have claimed to have a hundred thousand dollar rig to wash garages with, and offer no substantiation that these filters will blow up.
This whole environmental nightmare is being co-opted by some to scare people out of some of the more lucrative parts of the pressure washing industry with the hope of making insane profits for themselves.
Of course, this is just my opinion.
 
There are some at the PWNA that have recovery equipment. Some of them have so much invested in their equipment that it has become a large part of their business model. Because of that, they feel the need to get their customers through fear, and trying to make it a legal requirement to use certain equipment in the cleaning process.
The sad part is, the people that are most adamant about using recovery equipment on every job, don't have any credentials, and use false information that contractors buy into, to try and scare people into using them, because they claim to have the proper equipment.
There are certain areas of pressure washing that require full recovery equipment. Parking garages and Fleets are the two biggies, but you still do not need to have the ability to manufacture ultra pure water after cleaning to wash these things. Often, if you want really pure water, you can do something simple like a DE filter from a pool supply house. There are some that claim they will blow up, but these are the same people that have claimed to have a hundred thousand dollar rig to wash garages with, and offer no substantiation that these filters will blow up.
This whole environmental nightmare is being co-opted by some to scare people out of some of the more lucrative parts of the pressure washing industry with the hope of making insane profits for themselves.
Of course, this is just my opinion.

Thanks for posting Scott

Unfortunatedly there are those distributors out there who are always trying to sell you expensive elaborate reclaim/recycle equipment..in fact some who have posted on this board have tried to sell me stuff i had no use for.

i do some fleets and am required to have a reclaim system. My system is pretty simple- a 55 gallon drum with 2 motors/pumps on top pulling water into it which discharges to a tank on my rig.

I saw a guy washing a gas station with a 5 gallon bucket on the ground with a sump pump on top discharging into a hose which was dumping out on to a grass field..wish i had my camera..but hey whatever works.

Its scary though what is going on, to prevent or head off future problems i try to stay proactive. Ive visited my local AHJ's and sat with them and talked with them about the work im doing and my equipment i have. Most know less than i do. but its important to establish and maintain some type of relationship with the local AHJ..just my 2 cents
 
It all goes back to common sense. Does anybody really think they will get clean taking a bath with cold water and no soap? Yes it is a shame some people try to scare people into buying reclaim equipment. We sell that type equipment simply because some of our customers are required to have it because of stipulations in their contracts with certain customers. For the most part the vast majority of contractors those washing houses are not required to do so. I will say this, the city of Athens, GA is cracking down on the cleaning in the downtown area. I ask anyone here to go a week or so taking baths without soap and ask their spouse if they really think they are clean.
 
I don't need to. I have had teenage boys.
 
Back
Top