BUTYL & SODIUM HYPOCHLORITE

Hello Everyone,
I have a question for Les. What is the difference between Sodium Metasilicate Anhydrous and Sodium Metasilicate Penta? I was about to purchase some yesterday and the Sales Lady went home sick the other day and knew what I wanted as for the application but forgot to put the price into the computer and when I was about to pay they tried to charge me more than double. They did not know what to do so I called the Other supplier and verified my prices and I will be buying from the other company from now on. Chemically, what is the difference between the two and how will that affect the cleaning? On the MSDS it says that the Penta is about 57% and the Anhydrous it has a "ca 97" and nobody there knows what that means. I am thinking 97 percent but I do want to make sure. Thanks for any help.
 
Penta means 5 as in pentagon or pentagram. Sodium metasilicate penta has 5 molecules of water. Anhydrous means no water so Sodium metasilicate anhydrous has no water. Anhydrous has a very high melting point. I am assuming you are buying beads to mix your own soap, if so you need penta.
 
Just Like Bleach And A LITTLE Acid ?

Les Howington said:
There are soaps that contain sodium metasilicate penta and glycol ether EB and soaps that contain sodium hydroxide and butoxyethanol and so on. The difference is that these chemical manufacturers are not dumping an unmeasured amount of one product in with another and just mixing them together. Example : 1 gallon of butyl degreaser in a bucket with 3 gallons of clorox and adding one gallon of water. That mixture is not ok. There are more appropriate chemicals to add to the bleach. Sodium hydroxide is one. I think that was the original question and I probably answered it as to "never" add solvents and oxidizers together or maybe that's the way my answer was taken. I sort of hope it was taken that way because if you don't know what you are doing you should "never" mix two different chemicals together.

In certain amounts, solvents are combined with certain oxidizers to cause a desired chemical reaction. These formulas are tested , retested and proven. A bucket of this and a bucket of that will not get the "desired" chemical reaction or maybe it will. Sodium hydroxide is not compatible with water. It generates heat when combined but we do it everyday. If it is not done properly, you WILL get an undesired result. Sodium hydroxide reacts violently with aluminum but in the correct application it makes a great aluminum cleaner because of this reaction. Put it on too strong and you get an undesired result. Everyday we use things in places they don't belong to get desired results.

We used to mix 1000 gallon mixes of different starches and liquids. Everything was weighed and from a formula an amount was calculated so you could add less than a few ounces of another chemical, seal it off, heat it up and when it was done, a controled explosion had turned a slurry of liquid into a powdered product. Without those few ounces of that one chemical, the reaction wouldn't occur. Too much one way or not enough the other meant whether or not you got liquid or powder at the end of the process or blew yourself up trying. Not everything is a little of this and that.

So to answer you question, the reason you see certain products in soaps that are known to work against each other is because in the correct amounts they can sometimes work with each other to produce a desired product.
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Wow Les, I can see you have done your homework!

I was looking at Jomax, a commercially availiable bleach booster.

I finally got hold of the MSDS and it has Acetic Acid in it!

NEVER MIX BLEACH AND ACID ANYONE READING THIS !!!!!!!

I found this "interesting" ?

Though I am not, and never have been a pressure washing contractor, I have frequented many boards in the old days.

One "chemical combo" that semed to be handed down from the old timers was Chlorine/Sodium Hydroxide/TSP and water.

This was an all purpose cleaning mix for many back in the old days.

Chemically, I can see why.
 
Apple Roof Cleaning said:
Wow Les, I can see you have done your homework!

I was looking at Jomax, a commercially availiable bleach booster.

I finally got hold of the MSDS and it has Acetic Acid in it!

NEVER MIX BLEACH AND ACID ANYONE READING THIS !!!!!!!

I found this "interesting" ?

Though I am not, and never have been a pressure washing contractor, I have frequented many boards in the old days.

One "chemical combo" that semed to be handed down from the old timers was Chlorine/Sodium Hydroxide/TSP and water.

This was an all purpose cleaning mix for many back in the old days.

Chemically, I can see why.
Click to expand...

http://www.zinsser.com/PDF/MSDS/jomaxmsd.pdf

That is strange. According to the MSDS, JOMAX has a ph of 3.0-3.5.

I have tried using it with Bleach before, and didn't think it was worth it. Jomax costs $18/gallon.

I would rather save my money and use Bleach/TSP/Borax.
 
Some oxidizers don't go together. Like Les says, Bleach and Sodium Hydroxide do work, but not Bleach and Sodium Percarbonate.

I have found that Sodium Percarbonate and Sodium Hydroxide do go together well. In fact, the Sodium Hydroxide helps the Sodium Percarbonate dissolve and adds strength to the mix.

I use the combination for wood restoration.
 
Mike Sullivan said:
Some oxidizers don't go together. Like Les says, Bleach and Sodium Hydroxide do work, but not Bleach and Sodium Percarbonate.

I have found that Sodium Percarbonate and Sodium Hydroxide do go together well. In fact, the Sodium Hydroxide helps the Sodium Percarbonate dissolve and adds strength to the mix.

I use the combination for wood restoration.
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Something I have always wanted to try Mike is boosting percorbonate strength.
I am told that Percorbonate is really just powdered Hydrogen Peroxide.

I have theorized that Hydrogen Peroxide should clean roofs, as it is a potent oxidizer, but nasty stuff to tote around, etc, etc.

If you ever get a wild hair, mix some up and spray some on a roof, let me know what, and if anything happens ?
 
russ s said:
bleach & acids ?????? hummmmmmmmmmm,i will pass

sodium hydroxide ??????? roofs ....... pass as well
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The all purpose cleaning mix that was suggested was not for use on roofs.
 
The Emulsifier plus works as the cleaner for the dirt and pollutants and the surfactant that is uses helps to support the bleach in solution giving it the 'cling' you are looking for. This cling allows it to dwell longer on the surface allowing you to use a weaker concentration to get the mildew. We also add rinse agents, gloss enhancers, mildew release agents, as well as softening and chelating agents to help it work with poor quality water.
 
Paul Kassander said:
The Emulsifier plus works as the cleaner for the dirt and pollutants and the surfactant that is uses helps to support the bleach in solution giving it the 'cling' you are looking for. This cling allows it to dwell longer on the surface allowing you to use a weaker concentration to get the mildew. We also add rinse agents, gloss enhancers, mildew release agents, as well as softening and chelating agents to help it work with poor quality water.
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Thank You Paul. Great info.
 
It will vary based on application methods and surface to be cleaned but a good starting mix I recommend is 1-1.5 gal soap 1 gal bleach (regular 6% is usually fine) 2-3 gal water run through a downstream injector to the surface. A super suds sucker or x jet would be closer to the 3 gal of water than a standard 20% injector as they draw a bit more.

Individual mixtures may vary, and some will use 12% SH so it is really a blend you need to determine for your wash methods. It will however reduce the amount of bleach you use and works a million times better than the 'squirt of dawn' mixes used by some. Side by side you will see the difference.
 
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