How about the outsourcing of the education program?

If a company is awarded a bid then they would use their trainers. I honestly do not think that any company would put in a proposal with someone else teaching their course. But now we are speculating in detail again. There me be a company that donates a course to the PWNA for anything from free to a certain price. In this case if that bid were accepted then the PWNA would need trainers for that course. I do not know if this will happen as of all the bids that are in this scenario has not come up. I stress that this is a very broad brush stroke and we need to see what offers are made before we can say what we will or will not do. The bid is out and anyone who submits an offer that meets the bid request will be considered. I am trying to answer the questions with leaving all doors open and no door closed in regards to scope.
 
The PWNA is not looking to bring on trainers at this time.
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If a company is awarded a bid then they would use their trainers.
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So you are looking at bids, but not necessarily awarding any, you don't need trainers, but if you decide to go with one you would use the other tranier.
Is that right? Like I said, I'm confused.

Beth
 
I have my own few questions and remarks here....

1. Who's on the certification committee that will be reviewing the course plans that were sent in?
2. Who (names) actually makes the decision?
3. And what happens to the course plans that are not selected?
4. Are any of the BOD or committee members bidding? I hope this is not the case because it would not be an unbiased decision at that point.
5. I don't think that the PWNA was truly serious when this invitation was sent as there are probably members who could never have possibly created a certification course outline, secured all of the necessary insurance or figured out all of the other 10000 details that would be involved in teaching in 9 DAYS - the amount of time that was allowed from the emailing of the invitation and the deadline.


Roger
 
I have not seen this part covered to date in the thread or the invitation to bid so I will post my .02
If it were me looking at entertaining a bid, I would ask that a confidentiality/non-disclosure agreement be in place before anything is submitted and that an independent 3rd party should be in place to conduct the bid review and assessment based upon the criterion established before the invitation is presented. The bids should also be sealed so as to protect the bidders and maintain an unbiased decision among the bid submissions.

Rod!~
 
With all due respect to all of you this process is being handled properly. This will be my last post about this, at this time. I will be happy to answer all calls placed to me directly. One reason for not going into great detail here is the bid was not supposed to include non-members. So the details of the bid should not be placed here and that is why I would speak to anyone off of the Board. If someone would like to speak directly to Regina in the office her number is 1-800-393-7962.

Now let me try and answer some of the concerns.

1. Who's on the certification committee that will be reviewing the course plans that were sent in?
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This committee is chaired by Mark Hatten. The Board as a whole will be making final decisions with recommendations from the committee chair. This is how we make many decisions.

2. Who (names) actually makes the decision?
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I believe it is answered above. A list of the board is found on the website www.pwna.org

3. And what happens to the course plans that are not selected?
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If requested they may be returned. This is to be a friendly process.

4. Are any of the BOD or committee members bidding? I hope this is not the case because it would not be an unbiased decision at that point.
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I do not know if this is directed at me but I will take this head on. Why can I not submit my class as a proposal? It is something I have been doing before this process? Are you trying to say that because I am on the Board that it should disqualify my class, even if it is the best? With an open mind we do not know whether it is or not until we recieve all bids. In any case of conflict for me or any other board member they must abstain from a vote, if there is a vote on an issue. Also, the PWNA has had a Wood Restoration Course that has been it's most successful class for the past two years, should this not be considered? Robert Hinderliter was the President and former board member and has helped to put the education offerings that are in place to date with no issue of conflict. I believe this process should be about offering the best possible courses availabe to the members. However that happens we should searching and looking for those courses. The bids are being submitted to headquarters to Regina Dudley who is communicating with Mark Hatten, who is not submitting any coursework. Let's take this from another point as well, if Beth were teaching the best Marketing Class and had taught it before at seminars that benefited the PWNA, and she were on the Board, it would not be fair NOT to consider her course in an open bid situation. I hope we can see that the effort is to find the best offering possible.

5. I don't think that the PWNA was truly serious when this invitation was sent as there are probably members who could never have possibly created a certification course outline, secured all of the necessary insurance or figured out all of the other 10000 details that would be involved in teaching in 9 DAYS - the amount of time that was allowed from the emailing of the invitation and the deadline.
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This could take me three days to respond to. In short this process started in 2005. As we went through all avenues of bettering our educational process we agreed to put this out for bid. The bid was sent out on either January 3rd or 4th I believe. Please do not hold me to those dates but it was definitely sent out that week. Then it was in water works and it was also resubmitted to all members again. It has been sent out numerous times to vendors. There have been many phone calls with questions and follow up on the PWNA side as well as prospective bidders. MANY people have been involved. We have many folks who have called and asked for more time. We have been VERY appeasing to all in regards to submitting of bids. We are being inclusive and fair. There was no 9 day prior mailing, you may have missed an e-mail and this happened. This is why we posted it in many areas and sent many e-mail blasts. Regina did an excellent job in helping with this process. The PWNA was, and is, truly serious about this process and effort. We thank all of those who have taken part in the process.

If it were me looking at entertaining a bid, I would ask that a confidentiality/non-disclosure agreement be in place before anything is submitted and that an independent 3rd party should be in place to conduct the bid review and assessment based upon the criterion established before the invitation is presented. The bids should also be sealed so as to protect the bidders and maintain an unbiased decision among the bid submissions.
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Very good point. Anyone who has asked for a non-compete has been issued one. If this is a concern for anyone Regina has a copy of a non-compete at headquarters.

These are good questions and I hope I have answered them for everyone. Please do not hesitate to call as I enjoy talking with folks about the PWNA and what we are doing. Please also feel free to call any Board Member, Mark Hatten, or Regina Dudley directly.
 
Since my name as an instructor has been brought up, I'll chime in.
I do not have a marketing school. I do not teach on a regular basis for a fee, a marketing class. I donated my time an taught the class and got no reimbursement, never asked for one penny. I also wish to add I have not submitted a bid for the marketing class.

Having said that, I will also say it's a conflict of interest for you (Everett) to instruct and sit on the PWNA board since you have a school and get paid for teaching. Look it up in the dictionary.

Conflict of Interest:
A conflict between one's obligation to the public good and one's self-interest, as in the case of a public office holder who owns stock in a company seeking contracts.

As for getting notice, well, I got a notice January 25th, and it wasn't in any Waterworks I ever saw.

Beth
 
This could take me three days to respond to. In short this process started in 2005. As we went through all avenues of bettering our educational process we agreed to put this out for bid. The bid was sent out on either January 3rd or 4th I believe. Please do not hold me to those dates but it was definitely sent out that week. Then it was in water works and it was also resubmitted to all members again.
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Everett, I have reviewed quite a few publications by the PWNA, both email as well as bbs posts beginning back in October. The Waterworks publication that one would refer to as far as the PWNA's position on education stated, "We discussed the role of the PWNA in educating members and people in the industry. We talked about expanding the popular Power Washing 101 class as well as classes for fleetwashing and flatwork. We also discussed outsourcing our classes to a professional training company as we feel it would provide better training for our members." I would not qualify this as notification for the bidding process to begin.

There was no call to action in any correspondence or Waterworks in November.

In the minutes of the December 12th conference call, under NEW BUSINESS, "Discussed putting out letter for bid - excepting bids no later then January ACTION ITEM. Jim, Pete, Tony and John"

In the minutes of the December 21st, "Certification bid has been prepared to be sent out for classes and certifications to all interested in bidding by Monday December 27th." As a member, I did not receive any notification or invitation.

There was nothing in the December Waterworks about the plans.

On the January 10th conference call, "Discussed Educational Bid for PWNA members that was sent out. Due date set for February 3rd." Again, as a member and as indicated by other members, no invitation to bid was received until 1/25/06. Could it be that the only members that were initially invited were vendor members?

There is nothing in the January Waterworks.

I do not know if this is directed at me but I will take this head on. Why can I not submit my class as a proposal? It is something I have been doing before this process? Are you trying to say that because I am on the Board that it should disqualify my class, even if it is the best? With an open mind we do not know whether it is or not until we recieve all bids. In any case of conflict for me or any other board member they must abstain from a vote, if there is a vote on an issue. Also, the PWNA has had a Wood Restoration Course that has been it's most successful class for the past two years, should this not be considered? Robert Hinderliter was the President and former board member and has helped to put the education offerings that are in place to date with no issue of conflict. I believe this process should be about offering the best possible courses availabe to the members. However that happens we should searching and looking for those courses. The bids are being submitted to headquarters to Regina Dudley who is communicating with Mark Hatten, who is not submitting any coursework. Let's take this from another point as well, if Beth were teaching the best Marketing Class and had taught it before at seminars that benefited the PWNA, and she were on the Board, it would not be fair NOT to consider her course in an open bid situation. I hope we can see that the effort is to find the best offering possible.
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The issue with this is two fold. You, Everett, are in a position to vote on what you think is best. The bigger issue is that you and others teach classes outside of PWNA, so if in fact one of those class is not the chosen one, you will have direct access to the material that makes the winning bid better.

Further, what would prevent you or any other committee member from starting new training programs for profit based on the course materials you have been privvy to. You can't erase a thought from your mind so an idea that you may gain from reviewing other's outlines can't be deleted by a non-compete.

Celeste
 
Why can I not submit my class as a proposal?
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Conflict of interest.
This makes the bid process biased and questionable in your position of influence. Also, its like being a public appointed gov. official who owns a company who bids on government contracts. I am sure you can see the relevance as it pertains perticularly here.
Robert Hinderliter was the President and former board member and has helped to put the education offerings that are in place to date with no issue of conflict.
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NO waves because it was for the org. not for his business. This is a contribution.

Then it was in water works and it was also resubmitted to all members again.
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I'm sorry to say that there is no definite mention of this going out to bid. Only that it was being considered. (DEC.05/JAN 06 Waterworks) I feel uneasy about what you are trying to say here. I keep uptodate on pwna communications as you know I am a big proponent of communication to begin with and I do not see anything substantiating your post.

Let's take this from another point as well, if Beth were teaching the best Marketing Class and had taught it before at seminars that benefited the PWNA, and she were on the Board, it would not be fair NOT to consider her course in an open bid situation. I hope we can see that the effort is to find the best offering possible.
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This hypothetical situation is not the case and does not serve to justify a point which is contrary to the bidding process. This is a non-profit org segment being bid for outsourcing. Who stands to benefit monetarily if the bid is won?
"Also, its like being a public appointed gov. official who owns a company who bids on government contracts." Certain disqualifications are implied in conflict of interest parameters and they include those who are a part of it. In simpler terms...Mcdonalds employees, owners, franchisees, corporate partners and shareholders are exempt from eligibility. This shows integrity in the process so that no one can imply fraud. The same applies here. If you want to be able to bid, as a bod member; step down to be eligible. Otherwise, you are setting yourself up to be taken as an influencial medium in the process and a discrimination suit is possible from those you would take bids from. Talk to an attorney on this one guys.
A concerned members .02

Rod!~

btw, in the past bod members have donated time to teach these courses and there was the understanding before hand that there would be no compensation for doing so. If this is along the lines of what outsourcing means as it would apply to a bod member bidding, this is obviously a different case entirely and my previous views are not relevant.
Could you verify please?
Thanks.
 
Let me respond here and I'll try to make this short and to the point.

First off we the PWNA BOD as a group has decided that we should put these classes out for bids. Initially only PWNA members where going to be able to bid on these classes and its our right to offer this to our members exclusively. After a short while we as a group decided to also have non-members place bids if they so desire. Now with that being said we had a bidding deadline in place which was Feb. 3 06. Since we are now past that date we will STILL CONSIDER ANY BID THAT COMES IN BEFORE OUR FEB.20-21 BOD in person meeting. So anyone in this post who wants to bid you still have about a week to make that decision.

Now this part is also important and any and all who is reading this thread and may have an interest in placing a bid I want to make this clear..There is nowhere that we said a PWNA BOD cannot place a bid. This would be unfair to not give this individual(s) the same right as our members and non members are getting here. If a PWNA BOD(s) are to place in a bid then they have removed themself COMPLETELY from voting on who the winning bidder shall be. In essence they are out of this confirmation process 100%.

This we the PWNA BOD deem to be a fair process without costing us additional monies to get an outside agency to handle this. THis is how we voted on to handle this and some may not be happy about this but its that age old phrase that always comes to my mind when a decision is made which is "You just can't please all the people all the time". Remember all of this was a PWNA BOD Group decision which shall be carried out with the utmost integrity.
 
First off we the PWNA BOD
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There is nowhere that we said a PWNA BOD cannot place a bid.
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This we the PWNA BOD deem to be a fair process THis is how we voted on to handle this and some may not be happy
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Remember all of this was a PWNA BOD Group decision
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Look at all of the examples of how the PWNA BOD handles everything in a "have it our way" manner. (Sounds like Evil Burger King) One day, maybe what members care about will reach the top of the organizations priority list.
 
Just Speaking Hypothetically...

What if all the Directors submit bids? Who votes?

What if all but one Director bids? How do the PWNA members bidding know that their bid was fairly considered? If a large number of directors bid, and recuse themselves from voting, the remainder must debate the merits/liabilities of the bids without the input of a full board. The recused members shouldn't even be present since they could then lobby. For that matter, the bidding, and therefore recused, members have many opportunities to lobby not available to the membership at large.

Cynical, suspicious sorts (like dues-paying members and non-members alike) might suggest that the lobbying was done months ago and that the decision has been made. I say this only to point out the inherent problems in having Board members be eligible to bid.

Proper ethics demand that we avoid both impropriety, and the appearance of impropriety. If the PWNA wishes to be the organisation that shepherds this industry and its reputation, the Board would do well to heed the simplest rules regarding ethical behavior of board members. Otherwise, it starts to look like a club built to supply its own officers with access to member funds.

I'm not suggesting that any of this is the case, just that the appearances are alarming to me, a prospective member. Trust me, as a former Union officer in two of the largest unions in the United States I learned first hand how damaging even the suggestion of past impropriety by others can be.

I don't aim to offend anyone here. I would just urge the PWNA board to examine the way this situation looks to outsiders. Some of us are VERY interested.
 
It is a fine line, and like Scott Millen points out it is not necessarily what does happen , but what appears to happen that will alarm many people. It would be in the best interest of the future of the PWNA, for the board members to not be submitting bids to themselves.
 
Clean County PW said:
Now this part is also important and any and all who is reading this thread and may have an interest in placing a bid I want to make this clear..There is nowhere that we said a PWNA BOD cannot place a bid. This would be unfair to not give this individual(s) the same right as our members and non members are getting here. If a PWNA BOD(s) are to place in a bid then they have removed themself COMPLETELY from voting on who the winning bidder shall be. In essence they are out of this confirmation process 100%.
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Simply by being ON the BOD and being a part of the body who determines who gets contracts makes it a conflict of interest, as pointed out by Beth pretty clearly. Repeating that "it isn't fair not to" doesn't remove the fact that it IS a conflict of interest. You can't really expect us to believe that simply abstaining from voting removes all possible bias from the voting process???

As also pointed out, if I had a course on, say, wood restoration, and Rod also had a course on wood restoration, and Rod was on the BOD, I wouldn't want Rod to have access to the specifics of my course, since he and I are in competition with eachother for clients seeking to learn wood restoration.

It's things like this that reinforce my decision thus far not to join the PWNA.
 
I may have just fell off of the banana boat, but isnt this process a bit backwards? Why would I submit my currriculum to you for review and provide the opportunity for you to pirate, plagerize and acquire ideas.

If the PWNA wants to contract education, they should follow suit with the rest of the country. Publish a curriculum, distribute it for educators to review, and then and only then accept bids. The PWNA needs to provide the curriculum in a manner that will allow the students to pass the PWNA controlled and proctored Certification exam.

This looks like an org shopping for ideas.
 
RogerG said:
I have my own few questions and remarks here....

1. Who's on the certification committee that will be reviewing the course plans that were sent in?
2. Who (names) actually makes the decision?
3. And what happens to the course plans that are not selected?
4. Are any of the BOD or committee members bidding? I hope this is not the case because it would not be an unbiased decision at that point.
5. I don't think that the PWNA was truly serious when this invitation was sent as there are probably members who could never have possibly created a certification course outline, secured all of the necessary insurance or figured out all of the other 10000 details that would be involved in teaching in 9 DAYS - the amount of time that was allowed from the emailing of the invitation and the deadline.


Roger
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LOL - Hey Roger my wife did it in 2 hours and 45 minutes.... Just kidding
 
Everett Abrams said:
With all due respect to all of you this process is


I do not know if this is directed at me but I will take this head on. Why can I not submit my class as a proposal? It is something I have been doing before this process? Are you trying to say that because I am on the Board that it should disqualify my class, even if it is the best?


Hatten, or Regina Dudley directly.
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Everette, I agree with you on part of ths... I sat in on part of your class and it was excellent... possibly one of the best I have attended in nursing, ems or otherwise. But the fact that you sit on the BOD, you should disqualify yourself. You are in a position and I expect you have information and influence that are not conducive to a fair bidding process.

This is what Cheney no longer has a part of Haliburton, why presidents don't own stock and why CEO's and BOD's cant buy and sell stock based on information not public and equal to all shareholders... it s inside trading and illegal in this country.

You may be exposing the PWNA to litigation... Which pays more - teaching classes or PWNA board VP?
 
oneness said:
Simply by being ON the BOD and being a part of the body who determines who gets contracts makes it a conflict of interest, as pointed out by Beth pretty clearly. Repeating that "it isn't fair not to" doesn't remove the fact that it IS a conflict of interest. You can't really expect us to believe that simply abstaining from voting removes all possible bias from the voting process???

As also pointed out, if I had a course on, say, wood restoration, and Rod also had a course on wood restoration, and Rod was on the BOD, I wouldn't want Rod to have access to the specifics of my course, since he and I are in competition with eachother for clients seeking to learn wood restoration.

It's things like this that reinforce my decision thus far not to join the PWNA.
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Hey,hey ,hey...be careful there Mike or you'll find your inbox full of hate mail like I did.You know we aren't supposed to have an opinion on these matters.Before you know it someone will be calling you unprofessional or the anti-christ.
 
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